I posted this over in off topic, but I think I will see more informative help from you diesel guys. Diesels have always been somewhat of an interest of mine, and I need help persuading a person into a cummins.


Okay, I am in the process of trying to persuade my stepfather into buying a 2009 Dodge Ram 3500 Dually.
He has always been a GM person, but in 2005, he bought a 2004 F-350 6.0 Powerstroke. Due to some personal reasons, he is selling the 04 and is going to buy new.

I almost had him convinced that the Ram was the only way to go, but yesterday he saw a 2009 Ford super duty Kingranch. He is really leaning towards this truck.....

Here is his reasoning for not buying Dodge.
1. With Plants being down right now, he can't find a Laramie with bucket seats/ Automatic Transmission/ and right gearing.
2. He refuses to buy a truck that only has a basic 3 year 36,000 mile warranty.
3. The Dodge Transmissions scare him to death.

He is seriously considering the ford for the following reasons
1. Can get a full no limit 100,000 mile powertrain warranty
2. Can get the bucket seating.
3. can get the proven Torque shift transmission


I have nit picked against Ford with the following points
1. Ford has yet to find a proven dual turbo setup ( way too many issues with their current set)
2. The emission control on them are very well known to catch fire during the soot burn cycle.
3. You cannot get a loaded out dually with certain options that he wants with a 4.1:1 gearing. Instead they offer a 3.5 gearing, and lets face it, in a truck like that that is going to hauling massive loads, a 3.5 ratio is not going to cut it.
4. Ford may be in a better condition than GM and Chrysler right now, but their finances are a house of cards. They could very well be in the same pot of chit that the others are in in a very short time.
5. Sadly the dual Turbo 6.4 Diesel is still not making the same amount of power as the 6.7 cummins.
6. The engine bay is cramped beyond belief. It is nigh impossible to do any kind of engine work on these diesels with out either pulling the motor or removing the whole cab of the truck.


I really need some help with this guys. So if you can think of some other legit points that I haven't listed let me know. It is an embarrassment to be seen in a Ford, and I fear the new powerstrokes are complete pieces of ****.

Thanks for the help.

Oh, and Duramax not a consideration, for obvious reasons.

 

Well, here's my 2 cents worth. Since he has a '04 6.0l powerstroke, he already knows the pitfalls of the superduty. The new trucks don't lite fields on fire no more, that's been taking care of awhile ago. But the ford trans is by no means bullet proof. Put some extra power to it and it will toast just like any other tranny. The new Dodge trans is better than the previous styles, and in stock to mildly modded will hold up fine. I agree that there is a availability issue for the time being, can't get around that. The Dodge Cummins should still have a 100,000 mile warranty, and at least for the engine he can get service at any dodge dealer or any Cummins dealer around the country.

I also don't see any point in buying a truck like this without the 4.10 gear. Depending on what kind of load (weight or trailer) he plans on doing, a 3.5 gear might not even be an option to consider. Being that my employer makes parts for the 6.4, I can attest to the fact that anything beyond general maintenance will be a royal p.i.t.a. The motor is assembled in a cradle, then installed on the chassis, then the cab on top. Most work to the motor needs the cab removed to perform. Not what I'm looking for. The mileage dropped when the new emissions were added, this for all three brands. But a dpf delete kit is available for the Cummins that will improve mileage alot (warranty issues) but mods and maintenance/repair are much easier with the Cummins. I've owned all three brands, and my Cummins is the only one that's NEVER seen the inside of a repair center for anything other than oil changes. And for being a past powerstroke owner, I will NEVER entertain the thought of ever owning one of these pieces of junk again. But that's just me. Good luck!

 

Well, I will give that 04 credit, it has had the chit beat out of it, but it has quirks that are just not acceptable. We managed to blow the head gaskets out while towing with it, and the one that gets me is the idiotic snap on tubing for the turbo. Those are so temperamental about blowing off when there is boost running. Its quite interesting to be traveling at high way speeds in a truck with 350HP and then travel up a hill and watch that 350Hp truck turn into a 25HP smoke blower.

I am glad to see that they have fixed the exhaust issues, but what have they done to improve the dual turbo setup?

I do know that one if his major gripes about the ford is the fact that you can't do any kind of service work under the hood besides minor fluid changes, and working with the intake. And, the new fords are just as bad if not worse.

I guess I am just going to have to let him f**k up one more time and then see where he stands.
My main fear is that Ford is going to end up in the same position as GM and Chrysler, and in that case he would be no better off with a Super Duty.

As far as gearing, I would think he would have seen that, but obviously not. A 3.5:1 gear ratio is not something you want to have when you strap 30K plus to one.

 

The ford is available with 3.73 and 4.10 and in the F350 I think you can get one geared lower yet. As far as the Torq-Shift trans, it is not all that it's cracked up to be. I had one in my '04 and it took 7 trips to the dealer to get it finally replaced with a rebuilt unit that ended up slipping under stock power and 9000 lb trailer load. The new Ford get horrible mileage and is a PITA to work on.

The new 6.7 Dodge does have it's problems though. The turbos stick and need cleaning and the mileage is also not that great. They also will NOT complete a regen unless they are driven at highway speeds for 45 minutes. It's a tough choice, but I still think I would lean towards the Dodge.

 

Well the deciding is all over. He went and bought a 2009 F-350 6.4 King Ranch edition. 4.11 gearing with LSD. Torque shift.
I know he isn't going to be happy with it, considering he was getting between 15-18 MPG with the 6.0 he had. Now he is getting about 13 no matter how he drives it. EDGE claims to be able to gain about 4-5 MPG with their chip alone.
Talked to several dealers and they all have said that on the 2010 models, they will not be offering a diesel. They are cutting powerstroke engines from their line up because they can't get the fuel efficiency up high enough to where the EPA will leave them alone.

There were two main reasons he went with another Ford. 1. We couldn't find him a loaded out 3500 RAM that had leather, and bucket seats. 2. The warranties on the RAMs are not that great. I think they offer like a 5 year 100K warranty(this is just powertrain), where Ford offers a straight 6 year 100k warranty that is a bumper to bumper coverage.

Oh well, not my money, and I don't have to drive it that often