This is supposed to have been published by the Chicago Tribune Friday morning edition. Here Goes!

Sounds like the new 6.4 may have a few "issues", like the 6.0h No!

A contract dispute between Ford Motor Co. and Navistar International Corp. became public Thursday when the automaker sued Navistar in state court in Michigan for allegedly refusing to live up to terms of a long-standing supply accord.

For a decade, Warrenville-based Navistar has been the sole supplier of the diesel engines that Ford puts into its heavy-duty pickup trucks.

Now, however, the automaker and its key supplier have locked horns over the price Navistar is charging Ford, and also over the extent of Navistar's financial obligations in warranty claims involving its engine.

Ford's claims are "totally without merit," a Navistar spokesman said, adding that the maker of trucks and diesel engines intends to "vigorously respond in court."

Navistar has been providing Ford with a 6-liter diesel engine for several years, Ford's lawsuit notes, and in late 2006 it also began supplying the automaker with a new 6.4-liter engine.

"The parties have previously been able to negotiate and reach agreement on the prices of the engines Navistar produced for Ford," the complaint says, but with regard to the 6.4-liter engine Navistar has altered its bargaining stance and "failed to act in good faith."

In fact, Ford's lawsuit says, Navistar has threatened that unless Ford pays the price Navistar is demanding, Navistar would refuse to ship the new engine to Ford. That move would breach the supply agreement, it contends.

In addition, Ford says, Navistar is not complying with its warranty-sharing obligations. Under the agreement, Navistar is supposed to pay a portion of the costs Ford encounters for engine-related warranty repairs. But Navistar has refused to pay the amounts Ford says it is owed, according to the lawsuit.

In response, Ford took the unusual step of "debiting" Navistar for a portion of those costs. In other words, Ford is withholding money it owes Navistar for engines, in order to recover the money Ford says Navistar owes it under the warranty agreement.

Ford is asking the court to rule that the "debit" is proper under the circumstances, and it also asks the judge to order Navistar to reimburse Ford for future warranty costs.

The automaker also asks the court to issue a declaratory judgment on what Navistar can charge for the 6.4-liter engine.

The debit "is simply a business transaction intended to resolve a dispute we have with [Navistar]," Ford said in a statement. "Regrettably," it said, because Navistar has not cooperated, "we have no other choice but to take the debit and file the lawsuit."

Ford and Navistar also have a joint venture that manufactures medium-duty Ford trucks for sale in North America.

 

Never... the one and only ford I had was a big enough POS to deter me for life...

 

Let me get this straight,

Ford has Navistar build enginies for Ford that Ford and Navistar designed jointly. Basically, the 6.0 is a VT365 except the VT365 is a 240 hp engine and the 6.0 is a 350 hp engine. Navistar designed the block and collaborated on the heads, Ford designed the crap on the engine that is giving so much trouble like the EGR valve that uses the VGT turbo for a particulate filter, a body design that prohibits easy access to the engine to service or repair it, the sorry excuse for a fuel supply system, and a host of sensors and such that failed on many of these trucks.

Now, not only is Ford pissed off at their once loyal customers who put up with the bull they told us on the 30th trip to the shop for half assed repairs that usually included "Attempt to clean or refurbish, or duck tape and bailing wire engineer, and Re install rather than replace." Now they are teed off at their engine supplier and trying to shove to costs over onto them? They did a dang good job shoving the repair costs onto their customers to start with. I paid 4 $100 deductibles, a lawyer to write a letter, and 2 tow trucks on mine for the same problem that never was fixed within a 2 month span and it wasn't fixed when I traded it to the Dodge place.

Personally, I hope Navistar's lawyers stick it to Ford where the sun doesn't shine.

Skipper

 

Tell us how ya really feel......[:-]

 

Well, if the shoe fits. Ford wouldn't want me to testify on Navistar's side.

Something like that will never see a courthouse to start with, but if it did you talk about confusing a jury in a city court room. I know Ford wouldn't allow anyone on the Jury that ever owned a 6.0 truck. You'd have a bunch of rice rocket jurors listening to a bunch of techno mumbo jumbo from experts like the Ford Engineer who designed that stupid fuel filter and water drain they mounted sideways on the frame. Heck, why not sue Garrett Turbos. Most of the failures eventually involved the turbo that couldn't manage to be a particulate filter for the EGR valve. Garrett should have made a turbo tough enough to be a trash pump in the municipal sewage treatment facility, then it would have held up to chopping carbon mile after mile.

The fact is, Ford created their own trainwreck not Navistar.

Ford's Failures:

1. Very evident that they did not test that engine under real world conditions much if at all. They stuck it in the trucks and sold them. Most of the trucks I know of that had problems started having them at under 20,000 miles and more like 10,000. Mine unfortunately made it to 15,565 miles which is 3,565 beyond Kentucky's lemon law statute. Any testing at all would have revealed a) the fuels available on the market are not suited for that engine. b) if you are going to pump the exhaust back into the engine you are going to have to filter the carbon out of it before you do. c) hiding the engine under the cowling and putting 4000 wires, radiator overflows and 27 hoses and pipes on top of the motor make it pretty dang difficult to work on. d) The torque band is in the wrong dang rpm range.

2. Ford was and still is ill prepared to fix these wagons. Dealership mechanics aren't rocket scientists, they are mechanics. Most are young and don't have a lot of experience and have been taught to rely 100% on a computer to fix an engine. They don't have a working knowledge to get them in the right area to solve a problem. Ford should have put in some major service centers to handle issues with these engines that local dealers could not. Ford made their dealers look like idiots and that never should have happened.

3. Patching people's trucks up and praying they'll soon run out of warranty or sell it so you don't have to take your responsibility to fix it right under warranty is inexcusable. My truck was out of service 5 months last year and about 3 the year before. You've got to respect the fact that diesel trucks are used commercially and people's living depends on that vehicle doing what it is they bought it to do. One of my buddies had one that was in the shop nearly 90 consecutive days. It was a welding rig. After 2 months, he sent his crew and a crane to pick the tool body off it and set it on a new Chevrolet Chassis in the parking lot of the Ford Dealership. They didn't like that a little bit, but with his crew without a welding rig for 2 months his business was suffering as well.

4. Ford's customer service department is littered with idiots. People that tell you you'll have to change your sparkplugs because you've put gas in your diesel. Inexcusable. Ford darn well knew they had a problem with that engine within a couple weeks or it hitting the streets. 3 years later they had plenty of time to get something in place to take care of their customers.

Nope, I'll never own a Ford again other than my 12 year old truck they refused to take in trade on my 04 because it was "Too worn out". After the 7th time I left my 04 for a week, I told them I was darn glad they didn't take my 95 in trade because I'd be wanting it back.

Skipper

 

Hey SKIP, I just watched a 6oh fog the cattle barn in Anderson SC.The truck looked like it was on fire when he pulled on the yard. I kinda felt sorry for the ole boy , cause the truck looked maybe a year old at the most. Poor guy is stuck making payments on a dying workhorse. I had an old 7.3 93 model and it was one of the better trucks I ever owned. Nothing like my 04 CTD, but it was a good mule.

 

Excellent post Skip.

Its not about Ford bashing, its about trying to get Ford to wake up and realize that the customer does not make a good QA department.