1997 Didge Ram Van 3500 cranks, but not starting problems
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1997 Didge Ram Van 3500 cranks, but not starting problems
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I have an Xplorer motorhome on a 1997 Dodge Ram Van 3500 chassis. I have loved it. The past 2 weeks have brought on some electrical problem which is proving difficult. I have a new battery & only 1500 miles on the plugs.
It began when I started it after not using it this winter. It started fine, I pulled up 15 feet. It died & just cranked & wouldn't start. Had it towed to a local shop. They found the crankshaft position sensor (CPS) had fused wires & replaced it. When I started it at their shop to leave I heard a strange clicking sound. The mechanic said it was coming from the sensor but that it was probably just a plastic spacer & should be OK, but to bring it back in a few days if still happening. Drove it home & 2 days later it would not start again, just cranked. Towed it back to the shop. They said the CPS had shorted out. They had used a generic part. They tried another of the same & it made the same noise. They went to the Dodge dealer & bought the Mopar part. It was 5/1000" different size & seemed to work well. They said the fuel pressure was good. I had replaced the fuel pump 5 years ago.
The last week I used the van 5-6 times, launching my boat & getting some other things checked. Tuesday I came home with the boat, backed up into my drive, turned it off, opened the garage door & it wouldn't start again, just cranked. The shop had it towed in. They said the spark was intermitent, but the CPS was OK. They got it started but said they 'jiggled some wires' at some harnesses close to the battery & it died. They unplugged, cleaned & 'lubed' the harnesses and said it starts every time. They did not know what was the main problem & thought I may have another 'no start' episode. When I picked it up yesterday the brake warning light & ABS light were on. Setting & releasing the emergency brake did not shut off the lights. The mechanic checked underneath, under the hood & inside & said the brake was released & this was related to the electrical problem he felt he had not solved in 3 hours of work & suggested taking it to a dealer. I checked the fuses & all are good.
Just tried a test drive. The brake warning light turned off with a click under the dash & all seemed well. The brake light came on & turned off when setting & releasing the brake. I drove it a mile, shut it off & it restarted fine. One block later it died again & had to be towed for the 4th time. It's at the dodge dealer now. It cranks but will not start.
I'm supposed to leave on a 3500 mile trip to WY & the Black Hills in a week & need reliability.
I've done some internet research & this seems to be a not uncommon problem with older Dodge vans. I have read some online diagnostic check lists with which a mechanic should be able to test each part & connection to find the fault. This last mechanic did not seem to be an electrical guy. Could it be related to the PCM? That is original & I have 135,000 miles on the van.
I have an Xplorer motorhome on a 1997 Dodge Ram Van 3500 chassis. I have loved it. The past 2 weeks have brought on some electrical problem which is proving difficult. I have a new battery & only 1500 miles on the plugs.
It began when I started it after not using it this winter. It started fine, I pulled up 15 feet. It died & just cranked & wouldn't start. Had it towed to a local shop. They found the crankshaft position sensor (CPS) had fused wires & replaced it. When I started it at their shop to leave I heard a strange clicking sound. The mechanic said it was coming from the sensor but that it was probably just a plastic spacer & should be OK, but to bring it back in a few days if still happening. Drove it home & 2 days later it would not start again, just cranked. Towed it back to the shop. They said the CPS had shorted out. They had used a generic part. They tried another of the same & it made the same noise. They went to the Dodge dealer & bought the Mopar part. It was 5/1000" different size & seemed to work well. They said the fuel pressure was good. I had replaced the fuel pump 5 years ago.
The last week I used the van 5-6 times, launching my boat & getting some other things checked. Tuesday I came home with the boat, backed up into my drive, turned it off, opened the garage door & it wouldn't start again, just cranked. The shop had it towed in. They said the spark was intermitent, but the CPS was OK. They got it started but said they 'jiggled some wires' at some harnesses close to the battery & it died. They unplugged, cleaned & 'lubed' the harnesses and said it starts every time. They did not know what was the main problem & thought I may have another 'no start' episode. When I picked it up yesterday the brake warning light & ABS light were on. Setting & releasing the emergency brake did not shut off the lights. The mechanic checked underneath, under the hood & inside & said the brake was released & this was related to the electrical problem he felt he had not solved in 3 hours of work & suggested taking it to a dealer. I checked the fuses & all are good.
Just tried a test drive. The brake warning light turned off with a click under the dash & all seemed well. The brake light came on & turned off when setting & releasing the brake. I drove it a mile, shut it off & it restarted fine. One block later it died again & had to be towed for the 4th time. It's at the dodge dealer now. It cranks but will not start.
I'm supposed to leave on a 3500 mile trip to WY & the Black Hills in a week & need reliability.
I've done some internet research & this seems to be a not uncommon problem with older Dodge vans. I have read some online diagnostic check lists with which a mechanic should be able to test each part & connection to find the fault. This last mechanic did not seem to be an electrical guy. Could it be related to the PCM? That is original & I have 135,000 miles on the van.
Last edited by steveh27; Mar 31, 2012 at 01:35 PM.
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There seems to be a pattern of problems with the wiring. I would focus on that as the problem.
I had a Plymouth Grand Voyager one time that would start every time it was cold and every time you only used it around town. If however it went down the highway and you shut it off, it wouldn't start for at least an hour afterwards. The problem ended up being the 4-wire connector going to the coil pack. When it was hot the female half of the individual wire connectors would expand enough to break contact with their male counterpart.
I had a Plymouth Grand Voyager one time that would start every time it was cold and every time you only used it around town. If however it went down the highway and you shut it off, it wouldn't start for at least an hour afterwards. The problem ended up being the 4-wire connector going to the coil pack. When it was hot the female half of the individual wire connectors would expand enough to break contact with their male counterpart.
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I think a lot of issues with these Vans is rain/wash water running down the firewall and infecting the bulkhead connectors, and ECM/PCM connectors. Causing intermittent issues once certain temperatures/ humidities and wire flexibilities conditions are met.
You said the techs wiggled some wires near the battery which caused relays to click on and off. But then they seemed to not to pursue it?
I have taken steps to make sure water which does get in my hood cannot drip down the firewall or on any electrical connections.
You don't sound as if you are getting under the hood and looking for anything yourself, and techs really don't like to be told what the owner suspects, or what some guy on the internet said.
Whenever some weird electrical issue pops up on a Dodge van, one must eliminate bad/ intermittent grounds as the culprit. Battery to engine, battery to firewall, frame to engine. Remove them all, shine them up, wrench them tight. Then pursue other possibilities.
You said the techs wiggled some wires near the battery which caused relays to click on and off. But then they seemed to not to pursue it?
I have taken steps to make sure water which does get in my hood cannot drip down the firewall or on any electrical connections.
You don't sound as if you are getting under the hood and looking for anything yourself, and techs really don't like to be told what the owner suspects, or what some guy on the internet said.
Whenever some weird electrical issue pops up on a Dodge van, one must eliminate bad/ intermittent grounds as the culprit. Battery to engine, battery to firewall, frame to engine. Remove them all, shine them up, wrench them tight. Then pursue other possibilities.
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If you read my history when I started posting on this website, I had check gauges lights coming on, gauges pegging, and also an alternator overcharging.
I traced the problem to the PCM. I also had wires I could wiggle and get my van Given that wires can be wiggled and the van starts, do you know if you can bang on the PCM and get the Van to start?
Does the Van only behave this way when it is warm? What kind of weather are you in when you experience problems?
The reason I ask, is that I had an intermittent problem. Sounds to me like you have the same. After trying all the quick fixes, I finally pulled my PCM and sent it to SIA electronics in Tilden IL. Do a google search for them.
If they just test your PCM and find nothing wrong, they will charge you around $90 bucks. If they need to repair it they will charge you $199.00 and you will have a lifetime guarantee as long as you own the van.
They have a quick turn around time and a toll free number. I have had absolutely no problems with my van since they did this repair to the PCM. I was told by the tech that worked on it that after so many years, the sodder joints on the Eprom chip on the circuit board break loose from the vibration and age. Sometimes it can be a resistor or transistor but most of the time its the chip breaking loose.
So my advice to you would be to send the PCM into SIA and let them check it out. The most it will cost you is less than a shop hour and if it needs repair at least you know they can get it done.
The PCM controls the ground circuit for the starting system. If your starting circuit cannot get a ground, it does not matter how much you crank it cause you will not get a good spark.
Jason
I traced the problem to the PCM. I also had wires I could wiggle and get my van Given that wires can be wiggled and the van starts, do you know if you can bang on the PCM and get the Van to start?
Does the Van only behave this way when it is warm? What kind of weather are you in when you experience problems?
The reason I ask, is that I had an intermittent problem. Sounds to me like you have the same. After trying all the quick fixes, I finally pulled my PCM and sent it to SIA electronics in Tilden IL. Do a google search for them.
If they just test your PCM and find nothing wrong, they will charge you around $90 bucks. If they need to repair it they will charge you $199.00 and you will have a lifetime guarantee as long as you own the van.
They have a quick turn around time and a toll free number. I have had absolutely no problems with my van since they did this repair to the PCM. I was told by the tech that worked on it that after so many years, the sodder joints on the Eprom chip on the circuit board break loose from the vibration and age. Sometimes it can be a resistor or transistor but most of the time its the chip breaking loose.
So my advice to you would be to send the PCM into SIA and let them check it out. The most it will cost you is less than a shop hour and if it needs repair at least you know they can get it done.
The PCM controls the ground circuit for the starting system. If your starting circuit cannot get a ground, it does not matter how much you crank it cause you will not get a good spark.
Jason
Last edited by ComicDom1; Mar 31, 2012 at 05:07 PM.
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outcome
outcome
The dealer's mechanic first tried to get codes & found he could not communicate with the PCM so he declared it dead & we ordered a rebuilt one even though he said that may not be the primary problem. After I talked to the mechanic (my comments not being filtered by the write up kid) he looked at the wiring near the CPS & found the wire from the pickup coil had frayed & was grounding out on the valve cover. He repaired that wire & several others & installed a protective plastic cover & inspected all wiring & it's been working since. They canceled the PCM order & all seems fine. Over 70 miles on it over 2 days now. Alloro had the right idea, thanks. Hard to think 1 little thin wire stopped my beast cold.
The dealer's mechanic first tried to get codes & found he could not communicate with the PCM so he declared it dead & we ordered a rebuilt one even though he said that may not be the primary problem. After I talked to the mechanic (my comments not being filtered by the write up kid) he looked at the wiring near the CPS & found the wire from the pickup coil had frayed & was grounding out on the valve cover. He repaired that wire & several others & installed a protective plastic cover & inspected all wiring & it's been working since. They canceled the PCM order & all seems fine. Over 70 miles on it over 2 days now. Alloro had the right idea, thanks. Hard to think 1 little thin wire stopped my beast cold.