Hello, not new to the Dodge forum, but new poster to the K-Car site.

I have a 1992 Lebaron ES with the 3.0 V6 automatic overdrive. It did a really weird thing earlier today with the transmission.

I was leaving work and the tranny kindof jumped a bit but not bad, it went on and drove ok but about 10 miles down the road it started to jump and jerk real bad, then just quit moving. When I would put it in gear it just made a clicking sound. After I shut it down and waited a bit, it would move ok in drive but not in reverse at all.

Now the really odd part, when you put it in reverse you can feel it try to engage but wont move. When you put it in neutral it is like the tranny is in park, the car will not move, just like you have the emergancy brake on. The moment you shut the car off, it releases and will roll freely.

So after reading all that, am I guessing my tranny is shot? If so why does it feel like the tranny is locked up solid when in neutral, but when you shut it off it lets go and will roll freely?

Sorry such a long post, but with being such a weird problem I was hoping someone could help. Thanks in advance

 

Doesn't really sound like the tranny itself is shot. Not quite systematic, and if it was the metal, then it probably would let itself be known systematically. I'd try the electronic solenoids, they tend to do weird things with the tranny if they are malfunctioning. A lot of people recommend not to put Dexron into that tranny (604, right?), so it's probably a good idea for you to do the same, switch to ATF 3+. Just in case.

Doesn't sound like the torque converter either - the engine would bog if the converter just blocked in neutral. So it's probably the tranny's brains that have gone haywire. I don't think it's a tough fix - in Russia, a few guys I know can fix this in a day and for less than 100 $.

 

No the motor does not bog down at all, you can rev it in reverse and neutral, but it will not move either under its own power or by pushing it by hand till you shut the engine off. It will drive in the forward gears, I dont know how far as I did not want to get ot far away just in case it quit completely.

Is there a way to tell if it is electrical? Does it throw any codes? I guess I am saying is there a quick way to tell if that is the problem? Thank you for your reply

 

I think the OBD does flash codes about the electronic solenoids malfunctioning. But I'n not sure. I think you can find that info on www.allpar.com, in the 'repairs' section. You will have to go to a repair shop to fix this, so if they tell you that the only way out is an overhaul - ask them to check the tranny on a computer. It might be the solenoid pack. If they tell you "no, impossible- the trans has to be rebuilt", in that case, walk away and find a shop that will try the transmission on a diagnostics computer. Before anyone even tries to rebuild it, get them to check the solenoid pack.

 

Thank you for your info, I am stopping by a couple tranny shops today and the Dodge dealer to ask their thoughts also, thanks for your help

 

Nope, these cars (preOBID2) do not tell you anything abt the TCM/A604. To get TCM error codes, you need a special (expensive, not all shops have them) diagnostic scan tool to read the CCD bus.

I highly doubt this is a sensor or solenoid pack problem.

Why? With the TCM totally disconnected, the A604 is designed to work without electrical support- in limp mode- 2nd for forward, reverse, etc. By definition, if reverse isnt working, its a problem that at least includes a mechanical problem with the tranny/torque converter/etc.

If you can get a tranny shop to pull the TCM error codes, let us know what they are and we can try to figure out whats wrong. As to a tranny shop saying it must be rebuit, the fact that reverse isnt working suggests that might be the case, either way they should pull any TCM codes to see whats going on before saying what is needed to fix it.

You could try a CVI test yourself if you have a pressure gauge, instructions here:
http://dodgedynasty.50megs.com/a604/cvi.html

Otherwise there is not much you can do without getting into special tools, like the air pressure clutch test:
http://dodgedynasty.50megs.com/a604/airpress.html

Then lastly here are all the TCM codes, including a table of all the ones that can cause limp mode:
http://dodgedynasty.50megs.com/a604/tcmcodes.html

Since you have a LeBaron I am betting you either have the 2.x or the 3.0- in which case, if the tranny needs to be rebuilt- I *strongly strongly strongly* suggest going to a junk yard and grabbing a 5speed manual or 3speed automatic to put in there at stead of the A604. They're much stronger transmissions and you'd never regret it.

 

Well while messing with it today I think it is done for. I had it in revervse, and of course wouldnt move, but I was feathering the gas pedal and all of a sudden it started making a load whiring sound, and sounded like gears were clashing around inside of it, then I put it in drive and it did the same thing, but then would try to pull its self, so I really think something let go inside, does that sound right to you guys?

 

Well, I was getting the sound like that outta my car once when all (and i mean all) the engine and trans mounts were shot, but i could still move the car ok.

My gut is telling me its shot but its early to say for sure yet

 

Im gonna pull the tranny pan tomorrow and the inspection cover on the side to see if I see anything that looks bad and go from there. Ill post my findings then. Thanks for your imput

 

Anything can happen. I knew a guy who's solenoid pack (604) went bad, the gearbox would make weird vibrations, as if it didn't know which gear it should be in (1st or 2nd). They tend to cause trouble, the electronics in this box. Yes, there is a limp mode, forgot about that.

Try cruising around in drive for a while, until the engine warms up. Then try reverse, press the gas as you normally would when going in reverse. Nothing? Hit the gas a little harder (but not to hard). Did the jerk and go (usually this happens with a load thunk)? That, most probably, is a bad friction disc. I had the same happen with an A-413 - went forward, wouldn't go back. When cold, it wouldn't go back period. When warm, it would snap back with a little gas, with a load 'boom'. When hot, it would still need to be revved, but it would click into place (quietly) and go. Turned out to be the friction disc. I fixed the tranny a while later, cost me 1100 $. But I had the friction discs replaced, the torque converter repaired, all the planetray gears were new, gaskets, fluid, filter, etc. A full overhaul.

If it does need a rebuild, then try following shelbyimps (that's his login, right?) advice: the 604's really aren't great trannys when it comes to reliability. I wouldn't go for the 413 though. My car has a 413, and at speeds around and over 100 mph, the engine rpms are too high, guzzles a lot of gas, burns oil. Then again, when driving at any speed up to 80, it's ok. The "long" gearing on the 413 is a blessing during street racing, for example. I beat a lightweight and powerful Ford Puma with my 2.5. As well as M-B C-classes, BMW 3-series, any Russian car on the road. I raced a Honda Accord 2.0 (Euro spec), until 50 I was ahead, and afterwards, he got away on VTEC. Sorry for going off topic :-)).

Anyway, if even here, in Russia, where American cars are extremely rare (Russians love German and Japanese, with right-hand drive, by the way), people swap trannys on Chrysler cars, then I'm definately sure that there won't be any problems with that in the states. The manual will most suit aggressive driving, but the conveniency of the autobox will be gone... It's your call.

Good luck. Let's just hope everything's ok with your 604 and it doesn't need serious overhaul work.