Hey guys i've heard that you are able to swap injectors from a newer 3.0 eng into the Avengers 2.5. It's suppose to give ya a little bit more acceleration. Has anyone done this or heard of doing it at all?

 

My first response to that question is that it will run rich without some sort of piggy back fuel management. I'll check for a more solid response for you though.

 

I was right. You'll need a SAFC or something to regulate the bigger injector size, otherwise the PCM will send the same signal as it would to the stock injectors, which is what the PCM is caliberated for. In turn the car will run rich, even at the same pulsewidth, since the 3.0 inj. have a larger fuel spray. - 2.5 with 3.0 injectors -

 

I have been running a SAFC since its introduction, I dont know how good of an idea it would be to use it to control bigger injectors. I do have a friend who runs a pretty fast Talon and keeps it regulated with his AFC....that was after alot of tuning. With the money you would spend on the AFC and getting it dynoed, you could get the ecu reflashed to run with those injectors and your mods you currently have. There are some companies that will actually set your ecu up with programs to run nitrous and different octane fuels at the flick of a toggle switch...pretty smooth! To be honest- a piggyback computer is really only good till about 10% change of what the ecu is running stock. At that point the ecu ( Depends on the manufacturer-- some are more simple then others ) will think something is up and may start changing other maps or directories in the ecu to compensate for the change in fuel delivery or readings from the map and maf sensors...it depends on the car--- alot of the japanese manufacturers seem to be able to stand the piggy backs......Domestic manufacturers sometimes have a difficult time.......not trying to be a smart a$$, Im just adding from personal experience so maybe someone will read this and not go through the same problems I went through---

If you are going to spend the money to use a piggy back, then spend the extra money and get a stand alone wideband O2 system so you can atleast street tune the car.

 

Well, the SAFC can manage up to, I believe 680cc's. The 3.0 injectors (210cc) aren't that much more than the 2.5's (185cc), but they do flow more. I know for DSMs 680's are as high as most will go with a SAFC and are used for next size up...550's. There isn't a reflash for our ECU's, so that's out, AMS is too high for a next size up mod, or any stand alone for that matter. There are also a lot of Avenger/Sebrings already doing this without ill effects. Other vehicles may differ, but many Mitsu motors run well with the SAFC.
I personally don't think the 3.0 injector mod is a good one without the 3.0 motor. Cars in stock form run rich to begin with and these injectors will just add to the already fuel rich motor.
A wideband is a great idea and really the only way to properly tune a modded car...slightly or heavily. After all, that's what they use at the dyno, granted it's a sniffer.

 

Ya, I figured that you'd have SAFC. I just didn't know if it would make that much of a difference. Thanks for the info guys!!

 

I agree with you, John. I didnt know what cc the injectors flow, it really isnt that much-- you could make a nominal increase by just using as FPR in that case. I dont think the ones on these cars have temp sensors built in. Aeroequip makes a nice one.

I cant believe that noone can mod the ecu in this car? Is this ecu used in anything else? I once had a customer with a 3.0l Sebring that I installed the Venom computer on (didnt do anything IMO) and from what I knew that was the only piggyback, but it wasnt controllable. You could always get really extreme and use the AEM computer or and Apex Integration power fc. I dont see a point in getting into fuel mods unless you are running dry nitrous or a turbo.


Speaking of which-- how are people running turbos on 2.5ls? Is there a company that is fabricating the manifolds for it?

 

Exile makes/has the turbo manifolds bro. I believe the 2.5s are at the 210-215hp with a stage 1 kit and the stage 2 are supposed to be in the 325-ish(?) range, they aren't complete yet so it hasn't been dyno'd for factual figures.
Yeah, our ECUs suck. Folks use Megasquirt 1 or some other one called 034 EIC. That Venom thing boils down to a resistor for....dang, I forget what it is attached to. I'll find it and edit this post, lol. *edit* as promised...it only affects the TPS which is a "free" mod for our cars and nets about 1hp...not really, it just gives you a faster throttle response is all, lol. TPS Mod

I just remembered a "chip" that is useful for our ECUs...
Superchips...ICON

 

I agree and it still runs rich, lol.