No power
Champion
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,724
Likes: 153
I found this https://www.allpar.com/threads/chrys...r-open.229100/
I also saw some posts searching that code result that recommend you use the sound stethoscope or hold a screw driver on each injector to see if it is actually activating. Just because it has power at the connector doesn't mean its making it fire.
Have you disconnected the computer plug and cleaned it on both sides and reinstalled it? RalphP says plugging and unplugging electrical connectors 3 timesish usually rubs off any oxidation. I use dielectric grease to prevent oxidation.
I also saw some posts searching that code result that recommend you use the sound stethoscope or hold a screw driver on each injector to see if it is actually activating. Just because it has power at the connector doesn't mean its making it fire.
Have you disconnected the computer plug and cleaned it on both sides and reinstalled it? RalphP says plugging and unplugging electrical connectors 3 timesish usually rubs off any oxidation. I use dielectric grease to prevent oxidation.
Record Breaker
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 473
From: North Carolina
Originally Posted by onemore94dak;[url=tel:3535274
3535274[/url]]I found this https://www.allpar.com/threads/chrys...r-open.229100/
I also saw some posts searching that code result that recommend you use the sound stethoscope or hold a screw driver on each injector to see if it is actually activating. Just because it has power at the connector doesn't mean its making it fire.
Have you disconnected the computer plug and cleaned it on both sides and reinstalled it? RalphP says plugging and unplugging electrical connectors 3 timesish usually rubs off any oxidation. I use dielectric grease to prevent oxidation.
I also saw some posts searching that code result that recommend you use the sound stethoscope or hold a screw driver on each injector to see if it is actually activating. Just because it has power at the connector doesn't mean its making it fire.
Have you disconnected the computer plug and cleaned it on both sides and reinstalled it? RalphP says plugging and unplugging electrical connectors 3 timesish usually rubs off any oxidation. I use dielectric grease to prevent oxidation.
Grand Champion
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 5,156
Likes: 721
From: S.W. Indiana
I replaced the fuel pump with a Delphi. That didn’t fix it.
I tested the fuel pressure again. I attached the gauge to the port on the fuel rail and positioned the gauge against up the windshield so I could watch it. The truck started up and idled pretty well. I wanted to look at the throttle body so I got out, with the truck still running, and looked in the engine bay. The gauge fitting had unscrewed a little from the port. Gas was pouring over the driver’s side of the engine and onto the garage floor. I rushed back in and shut off the engine. Just then, the engine caught fire. Fortunately I had a fire extinguisher about ten feet away and put it out.
I was sure I had fried the wiring. I took off the fuel rail and injectors. Then took the wiring harness out of the truck and examined it on the work bench. A few sections of the outer covering (plastic, corrugated, black conduit) were completely melted but none of the wiring was singed our melted, except the connector wire to the IAC. I replaced that. While the harness was out, I did a continuity test on every connector back to the PCM plug. Every connector was good. I had to replace vacuum lines to the evap purge solenoid, EGR and HVAC controller. They had completely melted. Then I had to clean up all the fire extinguisher dust.
So, I had everything fixed and put it back together this morning. I started it up. It still has the same problem, loss of power, surging and eventually dying at idle. But, I finally got a check engine light. The only code that came up was 27, injector control circuit, output driver does not respond properly to the control signal. The injectors are only about a year old. I kept the old injectors. I put new o-rings on them and put them in. Still got a check engine light and code 27. The code doesn’t specify which cylinder has the problem. It could be any one, or all eight. I checked all the fuel injector connectors with a 12 volt test lamp. They are getting power. I checked all the injectors and cleaned them again. They work fine.
Any advice? Other than don’t light your engine on fire again?
Now I am thinking I could replace all the fuel injector connectors. Or, it still might be the PCM. Starting to get frustrated now.
I tested the fuel pressure again. I attached the gauge to the port on the fuel rail and positioned the gauge against up the windshield so I could watch it. The truck started up and idled pretty well. I wanted to look at the throttle body so I got out, with the truck still running, and looked in the engine bay. The gauge fitting had unscrewed a little from the port. Gas was pouring over the driver’s side of the engine and onto the garage floor. I rushed back in and shut off the engine. Just then, the engine caught fire. Fortunately I had a fire extinguisher about ten feet away and put it out.
I was sure I had fried the wiring. I took off the fuel rail and injectors. Then took the wiring harness out of the truck and examined it on the work bench. A few sections of the outer covering (plastic, corrugated, black conduit) were completely melted but none of the wiring was singed our melted, except the connector wire to the IAC. I replaced that. While the harness was out, I did a continuity test on every connector back to the PCM plug. Every connector was good. I had to replace vacuum lines to the evap purge solenoid, EGR and HVAC controller. They had completely melted. Then I had to clean up all the fire extinguisher dust.
So, I had everything fixed and put it back together this morning. I started it up. It still has the same problem, loss of power, surging and eventually dying at idle. But, I finally got a check engine light. The only code that came up was 27, injector control circuit, output driver does not respond properly to the control signal. The injectors are only about a year old. I kept the old injectors. I put new o-rings on them and put them in. Still got a check engine light and code 27. The code doesn’t specify which cylinder has the problem. It could be any one, or all eight. I checked all the fuel injector connectors with a 12 volt test lamp. They are getting power. I checked all the injectors and cleaned them again. They work fine.
Any advice? Other than don’t light your engine on fire again?
Now I am thinking I could replace all the fuel injector connectors. Or, it still might be the PCM. Starting to get frustrated now.
Ah Grasshopper. You are on the path of becoming a true mechanic. An engine fire is but one step towards enlightenment. (Granted, I've only had engine fires, not the whole garage, but you do you). You still need to have a wrench slip and smash your fingers, have a jack stand collapse, short out the secondary ignition system through your hand and try to trouble shoot a no start situation when you forgot to turn the system on.
Record Breaker
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 473
From: North Carolina
Originally Posted by ol' grouch;[url=tel:3535287
3535287[/url]]Ah Grasshopper. You are on the path of becoming a true mechanic. An engine fire is but one step towards enlightenment. (Granted, I've only had engine fires, not the whole garage, but you do you). You still need to have a wrench slip and smash your fingers, have a jack stand collapse, short out the secondary ignition system through your hand and try to trouble shoot a no start situation when you forgot to turn the system on.
Administrator
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 87,458
Likes: 4,218
From: Clayton MI
You should be able to rent a noid light set from your local parts store. Of course, that method only allows you to test one injector at a time....... Think if I went that route, I would leave the engine running while moving the noid from one injector to the next. Of course, the mere act of disconnecting an injector will tell you if that injector is working or not......
Start the engine, let it warm up some, and when it is idling at around 700, or so, unplug the IAC motor. (removes this from the equation.) Disconnect one injector at a time, and see what engine RPM does. If the injector is working properly, it should go down. If it doesn't, you found "a" problematic circuit. Given your symptoms though, I would expect you have more than one..... and it's likely a PCM problem. It gets warm, and something fails.
Start the engine, let it warm up some, and when it is idling at around 700, or so, unplug the IAC motor. (removes this from the equation.) Disconnect one injector at a time, and see what engine RPM does. If the injector is working properly, it should go down. If it doesn't, you found "a" problematic circuit. Given your symptoms though, I would expect you have more than one..... and it's likely a PCM problem. It gets warm, and something fails.
Record Breaker
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 473
From: North Carolina
I bought a noid light set a couple years ago. I kinda went thru the same thing. Those noid sets are fairly cheap. Turned out my injectors were fine. Problem was with the micro processor in the PCM. Couldn't be repaired. Ended up with a refurb. At least they're plug n play.
Thread Starter
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Professional
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 157
Likes: 21
From: Orangevale, Ca
So, I replaced the PCM. Problem is still there. It starts but runs rough, surges, and dies at idle. No codes when I do the ignition three step. I can smell unburnt gas. The problem started suddenly, a few weeks ago, while driving up a hill at about 45 mph.
I’m going to unbolt the exhaust Y from the exhaust manifolds and make sure it’s not a plugged exhaust, but I already took out the cO2 sensor and it made no difference.
Just to be sure timing wasn’t a problem I lined up the mark on the harmonic balancer at TDC, with cylinder one on the compression stroke, and checked that the rotor was lined up correctly with the distributor base. Looked fine.
I’m just about out of ideas and parts to throw at it. I was thinking maybe a head gasket but no symptoms (no oil in the coolant, no coolant in the oil, nothing coming out of the tailpipe).
To recap, I have eliminated the IAC, TPD, MAP, EGR, crank position sensor, injectors, distributor, rotor, spark plugs and wires, timing chain, intake manifold and plenum gaskets, no vacuum leak, new fuel pump, power splice, good compression on all cylinders.
I’m stumped.
I’m going to unbolt the exhaust Y from the exhaust manifolds and make sure it’s not a plugged exhaust, but I already took out the cO2 sensor and it made no difference.
Just to be sure timing wasn’t a problem I lined up the mark on the harmonic balancer at TDC, with cylinder one on the compression stroke, and checked that the rotor was lined up correctly with the distributor base. Looked fine.
I’m just about out of ideas and parts to throw at it. I was thinking maybe a head gasket but no symptoms (no oil in the coolant, no coolant in the oil, nothing coming out of the tailpipe).
To recap, I have eliminated the IAC, TPD, MAP, EGR, crank position sensor, injectors, distributor, rotor, spark plugs and wires, timing chain, intake manifold and plenum gaskets, no vacuum leak, new fuel pump, power splice, good compression on all cylinders.
I’m stumped.
Administrator
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 87,458
Likes: 4,218
From: Clayton MI
Pull the vacuum line off the egr valve and plug it off. See if it runs any better.
It's running rich, but, given all you have already done, I haven't the faintest why it would still be doing it. Maybe bad ECT sensor, the two-wire feller?
It's running rich, but, given all you have already done, I haven't the faintest why it would still be doing it. Maybe bad ECT sensor, the two-wire feller?
Champion
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,724
Likes: 153
I can't imagine it wouldn't run good enough to drive if the fuel sync is close as you describe but when I checked mine which I did manually with a scanner it was like almost 10 degrees off and that affected how it ran. I also put in a after market crank sensor that made it run better. I now have a new Mopar one I haven't bothered to install yet. Is it automatic or manual? If auto maybe the TV cable adjustment or something inside the transmission.
Thread Starter
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Professional
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 157
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From: Orangevale, Ca
I have a multimeter that can check dwell. I’ll have to try that.
It’s got a Mopar crank sensor, maybe six months old.
It’s an automatic 46RH. The transmission was recently rebuilt. That doesn’t mean something’s not wrong with it.
The throttle cable back to the transmission has almost no play at all in it.
It’s got a Mopar crank sensor, maybe six months old.
It’s an automatic 46RH. The transmission was recently rebuilt. That doesn’t mean something’s not wrong with it.
The throttle cable back to the transmission has almost no play at all in it.