As I was strolling around I came across post's and questionsregarding PING. I thought I would put this to rest for a while more.


Dodge did do some crappy R/T models. There are some out there that didn't get the R/T heads/cam and only the program tune. Tommy yours came with the R/T heads and it shows when you throw the lower octane fuel in.

The heads for the original R/T were bored and a different cam was installed. Also included was the program tune. This was a true R/T model. Dodge used the regular parts in some of the R/T's and just through in the program.

Now the cam introduces longer intake strokes and the heads allow that intake with larger intake ports. This is where you get your ping and your engine runs like **** without the extra octane that is needed because of the added compression.
Extra octane retards the timing allowing the detonation to occur at a later time thus stopping the PING. PING is the sound of combustion happening at the wrong time. This occurs when the piston is still at the slightest upward compression stroke and detonation happens. As the piston is forced down, the connecting rod is still moving upward so all that pressure goes no ware but into the rod bearings and cylinder walls. There is some small clearance between the rod bearings and the crank. The PING sound that you hear is the rod bearings smashing into the crank.

You will notice this much more on a newer engine's than an older one's because the clearance is smaller and hasn't worn out from everyday wear. The older more warn out motors have more play in them because of wear and the piston will actually be in the right spot (or close to it) when detonation occurs, thus the SLOP in the motor will even things out. It depends on the drivers that owned the trucks and how they took care of them.

Now a true R/T motor cannot run on regular octane. If it can then the motor is worn or the parts were not ever put into the motor in the first place.

The death flash is a just that "the death flash" This is were the government stepped in to reduce emissions by tweaking the computer. This can make the motor run on lower octane fuel but with consequences. Loss of power and thrive will ultimately occur.

This is reversible but only by a custom flash by a good reputable company like B&G or others. They require you to send in your computer and then you get it back and it’s ready. Hypertech will not be able to over come 100% of the Death Flash.
I HATE THE STEALERSHIP!

 

Not exactly accurate.

While I skimmed the post (needs a few spaces for readability)...

The statements about the Govt mandates on the Death Flash are 100% BS.

Slop in the motor makes it better/equal/cause/whatever. 100% BS.

Pings equal bearings smashing into the crank. 100% BS

Like a lot of internet cross posts, there are touches of truth therein, but a lot of BS and inaccuracies too.

How about some fact checking! LOL

IndyD

 

The Mopar Performance R/T cylinder heads were not put on at the factory
on any of the RT models.

Main problem with pinging on the Magnum engines is carbon build-up
which is made worse
by the extremely low air to fuel ratio at full throttle
so that the old practice of 'burning out the carbon'
with full throttle does not work and can actually make things worse.

 

Both of you guys need to check a machine shop.

Before you discredit anything have your facts strait.

 

[sm=icon_rtfm.gif]The more I read on over these post the more pissed off I get. Indy I didn't think I would ever get flack from you. I have an idea for both of you.

Call Dan @thefastman.com and you tell him this. He will make sure you know the truth. I didn't say that dodge put performance heads on I said they put different heads on.

Second, have any of you ever built a motor to know how these clearances are used and what they even are? If you know anything about timing and compression you would know this.

 

Now there is some truth going on here. There are different terms that I used in correlation with the right terms.

(Thanks guys for bringing it to my attention in a nice rational way.)

I did more investigation’s into terminology and found supporting documentation as to the right terminology.

Engine Knock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking
Pre-ingition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-ignition


Now if the fuel/air sparks too soon you get detonation. In the first supporting documentation under Detonation it explains the use of octane or fuel to air ratio to adequately control detonation. This can be controlled from FUEL/AIR or OCTANE. Now compression can be changed to deal with this problem but, are you going to tare it down. NO
And the last thing is TIMING.
TIMING, FUEL/AIR MIXTURE can be controlled by the computer. OCTANE is at the pump or added. (AKA) The Death Flash

Now we know the correct terminology lets revert to the heads. Call any good head machinist that dose custom work and they will disclose information about the true R/T head (not the performance head) PERIOD!

 

I'm not giving you flack my friend. I was trying to be as easy on the reply as possible. Sorry if it seemed as if I was giving you the newbie treatment. That would be unintentional!

As far as the heads, I am sure Dan would tell you no real R/T heads are stock heads in a Durango. "R/T" heads are aftermarket from Mopar Performance and not included as stockers. The "R/T" in the Durango line is 99% marketing and branding.

IndyDurango

 

Apology accepted.

I agree to the marketing statement. They did install regular heads in the D's but some made it out with different heads. These are the ones that only some people have problems with. New heads for regular 5.9L are about $850 bills while these different heads REBUILT are about $1275 and are not performance heads. Not to mention they are extremely hard to find if you even can.

The 5.9L used heads are made of steel and crack because the designed was from the 60's and did not incorporate the heat level of 195 for emissions. They were built for the 180 tops. Only 10% of these heads can even be rebuilt because of the cracking that takes place.

I talked to Dan and other custom head facility’s and only found 1 set of these heads. This is were I got MY info from. I couldn't afford them but kick myself for not getting them but oh well. A regular builder only uses the manual and if it's not right they throw them away.

Indy I know you don't believe that they were made but you need to understand that they were but on only a few. I don't know were they got them, maybe older ones they had. Who knows! From what I saw I can only place them on the 2000's only.

 

I would still caution that the information that some Durangos left the factory with Mopar Performance R/T cylinder heads is probably not true.

It may be possible that dealerships encountered a cracked Magnum cyl head and replaced it with a MP R/T Magnum head...as that has been a recommendation and the factory small cc inlet port head has sometimes been on backorder.

The factory Magnum cyl head is not 'steel' but an alloy of cast iron, and the R/T is a different alloy more resistant to cracking and with a more careful 'induction' heat treatment of the valve seats...the trouble spot for cracking is the ridge between the intake and exhaust valve seat.

There are several different Chrysler part numbers for factory Magnum cyl heads, but none of them match the R/T cylinder head.

Whoever was the source of this incorrect information
may be confused about the '5.9 Max' program that was cancelled.
{see old post below}

Stick with asking Marty at KRC,
Ryan at Shady Dell
or Jesse at Revsearch
for Magnum cylinder head information
as I know for certain they are aware of all this stuff and have contacts inside Chrysler.
======
old post below
======
A few other items that you may consider.The very long runners (14+ inches)of
the intake manifold are a bigger bottleneck than the cam.The stock 255 h.p.
engine (Indy truck)with an intake manifold, throttle body change and new
calibration made 300 h.p.with the 1.92 int valve and 320 with the 2.02 valve.
Another mod was lower exhaust back pressure setting. This was the 5.9L Max
program that was cancelled for the 2000 model year.The intake manifold was the
one offered by Mopar Performance a few years back. More gains are likely with
the 4 hole throttle body that they may still offer. The other problem with the
intake manifold was the lower pan that was too thin. However Hughes engines
and KRC offer a much better replacement pan that solves that problem.I don't
have all the specs in front of me but the rest of the changes did not affect
output. I believe that the stock intake manifold could be modified to get
fairly close to that performance. (15 -20 less by shorting the runners and a
larger TB )

posted by
mike s
Mi, U.S.A

 

The only 5.9 truck that came out of the factory with all the Mopar performance upgrades (M1, R/T performance heads, etc) was the 2003 modified 5.9 R/T Dakota limited edition. There was only a limited production of these Dak's in 03 so congrads to anyone able to get one of these. The total cost of all the mopar upgrades was over $3k added to the sticker and for that price, you only gained an additional 50 horses for a total of 300 HP engine.

so it is true, to get alot more realistic power, you have to spend quite a bit of money.

Here is a link for more info regarding the Factory modified 2003 5.9 R/T dakota

http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/..._rt/index.html

If they offered this same engine upgrade for the 2003 Durango R/T, I would have traded in my 2000 R/T for that!