Need Help with 1999 Durango V8 5.2 Engine
#21
01-18-2010, 10:01 AM
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Good Morning everyone. We have had some good luck this AM on finding the problem. The Shop Guy drove it and it actually stalled on him this morning, after sitting over the weekend. Sorry to say, but me and my Husband both went "YES" now they could check out the thing. Guess what it turns out the Coil was bad according to their Code Reader thing. They are replacing the Coil and the Spark Plug Wires even thought they replaced the wires when they did the tuneup in November.
Husband will drive me to work and back over the next few days just to be sure that if it is something else and it stalls again, it will be when he is driving. But for now the code says Coil. I will let you know if this does or does not solve the problem.
Thanks to all of you for all your help and advice. You have all been terrific.
Suzanne
Husband will drive me to work and back over the next few days just to be sure that if it is something else and it stalls again, it will be when he is driving. But for now the code says Coil. I will let you know if this does or does not solve the problem.
Thanks to all of you for all your help and advice. You have all been terrific.
Suzanne
#22
01-18-2010, 01:06 PM
Hall Of Fame
No offense to anyone...
...this thread is a perfect example of why sometimes forum diagnostics don't work.
After 100's of guesswork solutions to the same 3 or 4 symptoms, some make sense, some are WAY out there. It is certainly easy for armchair quaterbacks to call plays when it isn't their money needing spent to track down every conceivable provided solution to the problem. KaleCo loves threads like these. Certainly within 48 hours, someone would have provided one of their products to fix the problem too. And all would be correct of course! haha.
Sometimes, less is more. Other times, the best of stated intentions will fall on deaf ears.
Without actual eyes and ears on the Durango, this thread isn't helping. It is just proving that most threads end in the same place... throw everything at the problem, including the kitchen sink, and certainly one of them will have fixed the problem. As long as that solution is one of the first ones tried, the suggestion was "great" and the provider a hero. If it is found only after hundreds and thousands of dollars spent, that it wasn't such a grand excercise at all at following the patchwork "solutions" provided. Just IMHO and of course, opinions are like bellybuttons, everybody's got one.
Sorry. I just had to point out the not so obvious, or obvious, depending on what one reads into threads like these.
There are too many ideas and not enough concrete answers. Some from poor or incomplete descriptions of the problems, others from second hand answers with no real experience to back them up. Not just this thread, how most of the threads recently are heading. For a while last year, 8 out of 10 answers suggested in every post seemed to be checking for compression pressure. WTF? Really? No actually, not really. Usually, a total waste of time.
Sorry for the general rant folks.
Suz, my sincerest best of luck at finding your solution. Prior to spending hundreds or a grand on a PCM replacement, with no "No Bus" indicator, have it unplugged, throughly cleaned connections and double checked that the connections are but back nice and tight. Then double check again that they are triple tight just to be sure. Unless the PCM is failing only when hot, then it isn't the PCM. Ever see a computer completely fail only to work again the next day? Once actually failed, it is done.
IndyD
...this thread is a perfect example of why sometimes forum diagnostics don't work.
After 100's of guesswork solutions to the same 3 or 4 symptoms, some make sense, some are WAY out there. It is certainly easy for armchair quaterbacks to call plays when it isn't their money needing spent to track down every conceivable provided solution to the problem. KaleCo loves threads like these. Certainly within 48 hours, someone would have provided one of their products to fix the problem too. And all would be correct of course! haha.
Sometimes, less is more. Other times, the best of stated intentions will fall on deaf ears.
Without actual eyes and ears on the Durango, this thread isn't helping. It is just proving that most threads end in the same place... throw everything at the problem, including the kitchen sink, and certainly one of them will have fixed the problem. As long as that solution is one of the first ones tried, the suggestion was "great" and the provider a hero. If it is found only after hundreds and thousands of dollars spent, that it wasn't such a grand excercise at all at following the patchwork "solutions" provided. Just IMHO and of course, opinions are like bellybuttons, everybody's got one.
Sorry. I just had to point out the not so obvious, or obvious, depending on what one reads into threads like these.
There are too many ideas and not enough concrete answers. Some from poor or incomplete descriptions of the problems, others from second hand answers with no real experience to back them up. Not just this thread, how most of the threads recently are heading. For a while last year, 8 out of 10 answers suggested in every post seemed to be checking for compression pressure. WTF? Really? No actually, not really. Usually, a total waste of time.
Sorry for the general rant folks.
Suz, my sincerest best of luck at finding your solution. Prior to spending hundreds or a grand on a PCM replacement, with no "No Bus" indicator, have it unplugged, throughly cleaned connections and double checked that the connections are but back nice and tight. Then double check again that they are triple tight just to be sure. Unless the PCM is failing only when hot, then it isn't the PCM. Ever see a computer completely fail only to work again the next day? Once actually failed, it is done.
IndyD
#23
01-19-2010, 12:22 AM
Champion
Suz,
If that was it, congrats! The coil was the most logical, simplest and least expensive thing to try.
Not to say there were not multiple issues, but you can tell your husband, the coil is worth replacing every once in a few years anyways. It is good maintenance to keep you from ending up stranded. Me as well as a few other guys I know, will swap an old... yet still working... coil and keep the old one in the rear cubby just in case it is ever needed as an emergency spare. Very easy to change, even on the roadside in the dark.
I agree with them changing the wires too when a coil has gone bad.
What did they charge you on the coil? Installed at or under $100? With the wires as well, I am guessing $200-$250 total?
HTH,
IndyDurango
If that was it, congrats! The coil was the most logical, simplest and least expensive thing to try.
Not to say there were not multiple issues, but you can tell your husband, the coil is worth replacing every once in a few years anyways. It is good maintenance to keep you from ending up stranded. Me as well as a few other guys I know, will swap an old... yet still working... coil and keep the old one in the rear cubby just in case it is ever needed as an emergency spare. Very easy to change, even on the roadside in the dark.
I agree with them changing the wires too when a coil has gone bad.
What did they charge you on the coil? Installed at or under $100? With the wires as well, I am guessing $200-$250 total?
HTH,
IndyDurango
Last edited by IndyDurango; 01-19-2010 at 12:28 AM.
#25
01-23-2010, 03:02 PM
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Thanks all for your help. I just spoke with the shop and they said it purrs like a kitten. They have had it all day and so far they can't find anything wrong. They can't get it to stall out on them. They will be keeping it over the weekend and try again on Monday to try to figure out what's wrong. Any other ideas on the issue would be greatly appreciated.
Suzanne
Suzanne
1. Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor
2. Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor
3. Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor.
4. Throttle Position Sensor (TPS)
5. The 5v power supply from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) may be shorted due to a shorted wire.
6. There could be a shorted Governor. Vibration from driving is known to wear insulation from the GPS.
On 1 thru 4 --- Check for 5v at these sensors. If the 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground, the CCD bus is unable to transmit messages. The PCM is not damaged when the 5v power supply gets shorted to ground, but does need to be reset by turning the key off for 10 second after the short is removed. Using a digital volt/ohm meter measure the voltage on the 5v reference wire at each highlighted sensor, 1 thru 4. Look for damaged wiring, replace the sensor if necessary.
On 5 and 6 use the meter and check for a ground.
If all checks well, use a heat gun on the PCM with the engine running…this is for a warm weather check…I’m in FL also, and see if the problem occurs. If so, replace the PCM. There is a place here in FL that will sell a remanufactured PCM with a real lifetime warranty. Google the following: Auto Computer Exchange Inc in Davie FL. If your Durango has less than 80,000 miles or 8 years you will be covered by the Federal Emissions warranty that includes your PCM. Assuming the sensors have been checked as good and there are no electrical shorts the Dodge shop should replace the PCM. If they refuse ask for an appointment with the regional service rep.
Regards
Magic
Last edited by hydrashocker; 01-23-2010 at 09:06 PM.
#26
01-23-2010, 06:22 PM
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OK GUYS, We are back to square one. They replaced the PCM this morning. They actually finally got an error code P0320 - no crank signal at PCM. So they decided to replace the PCM. This was $700.00 after $226.00 for the coil and new wires since they were under warranty just replaced in December. The error code they got showed coil was bad, when they replaced it they said it was damaged.
The repair shop could install new PCM, did not have the ability to program it. They took it to a Dodge Dealership's service center and had them install and program the new PCM. The Repair Shop drove us to the Dealership to get the car. This was about a 15 minute drive. We drove the car from the Dealership to the repair shop to handle the bill. Two blocks from the repair shop the car just stopped running again. So we know it is not the PCM, unless they put a deffective on in it. Shop now is totally stumped as to what is causing this. So they still have the car and we are getting a rental car on Monday at their expense until they can figure out what is wrong with the SUV.
So as I said we are back to square one. I have a question for the last poster, is it 80,000 miles or 8 years, or 80,000 or 8 years whichever comes first. mine is a 1999 with only 66,000 miles.
Suzanne
The repair shop could install new PCM, did not have the ability to program it. They took it to a Dodge Dealership's service center and had them install and program the new PCM. The Repair Shop drove us to the Dealership to get the car. This was about a 15 minute drive. We drove the car from the Dealership to the repair shop to handle the bill. Two blocks from the repair shop the car just stopped running again. So we know it is not the PCM, unless they put a deffective on in it. Shop now is totally stumped as to what is causing this. So they still have the car and we are getting a rental car on Monday at their expense until they can figure out what is wrong with the SUV.
So as I said we are back to square one. I have a question for the last poster, is it 80,000 miles or 8 years, or 80,000 or 8 years whichever comes first. mine is a 1999 with only 66,000 miles.
Suzanne
#29
01-24-2010, 02:33 AM
Champion
Crank Position Sensor should have been the second thing they did after the coil when fuel and spark were good..
You got screwed on $226 for a $49 coil and 10 minutes of work. By the time they are done, I will not be surprised to hear they fried your PCM and had to replace it anyway.
You may be to vested with them at this point, but I would never go back there for any service. They do not know what they are doing. They have introduced so many variables at this point, a rambling thread on every possible solution under the sun is probably exactly what they will need to finally fix it.
My question is when their new PCM failed, how did they get you to still pay for that? I would not have. Wasn't the fix/problem.
There is no telling now what the original problem actually was.
IndyDurango
You got screwed on $226 for a $49 coil and 10 minutes of work. By the time they are done, I will not be surprised to hear they fried your PCM and had to replace it anyway.
You may be to vested with them at this point, but I would never go back there for any service. They do not know what they are doing. They have introduced so many variables at this point, a rambling thread on every possible solution under the sun is probably exactly what they will need to finally fix it.
My question is when their new PCM failed, how did they get you to still pay for that? I would not have. Wasn't the fix/problem.
There is no telling now what the original problem actually was.
IndyDurango
#30
01-24-2010, 03:30 PM
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Have not paid for it yet. Shop guy drove us home and is totally perplexed over this issue. He has told me to get a rental car and they will pay for it while they try to figure out the problem. In researching this online, this appears to be a big Dodge issue and they are not owning up to it. I will get the rental car from Enterprise as they will come pick me up.It was too late last night to get one as they closed at 3 on Saturday. I am trying to get this resolved with as little stress as possible on my Husband. He has cancer and has been going thru chemo for past 18 months. Stress is not good for him. As this is our only car, I really need it to get him back and forth to the chemo lab and doctors appointments as well as get me to work and back. Sorry for the venting, but I am just really pretty much exhausted over all this. The Dealership where we bought the car new in 1999 is no longer in business. They were one of the one's that Chrysler shut down last year. Plus the warranty has long since expired.
Suzanne
Suzanne