this car will start everytime idle for a while and stall out. can rev up but miss's and check engine light will come on and die when back to idle. the hotter the engine the quicker it dies. always flass'es code 11 i have tried a different crank sensor even is there a way to test a crank sensor? if i unplug the sensor the car will not fire up. so it must be getting some type or reading at the computor or can it still be a broken wire or did i just get un lucky and get 2 other bad crank sensors? could the pick up that the sensor reads fall off? i am lost as to why the only code i get is 11 any help would be a great thing. the car smells like its fuel so it must be fireing at wrong time with a bad crank reading im guessing on this car. again any help would be great thanks

 

There is no pick up per say... Just notches cut into the flywheel. I guess it could be possible to get some sort of junk stuck in a notch, causing a misread, but if it changes as the car get hot, I'd say you are picking up resistance on the wire, or have an issue with power to the sensor. The output to the PCM is other high of 5 v or low .03v depending on if the sensor is over a slot. The 5 v is provided on a shared wire from the PCM. It is shared by the cam sensor, so if the cam sensor changes resistance as it gets hot, it may pull the voltage too low for the crank sensor to operate corectly. You could try a cam sensor. The voltage should input should be 5 v at pin 1 orange wire and if you want to ring out the wire, it's pin 44 of plug c2 on the PCM. The signal output is pin 3 and is also shared to the tcm. Info is tcm pin 6 PCM c2 pin 43. O e last area is it has a shared ground and if any one of the shared systems has a short to ground, it can mess up the signal. The ground is pin 2 pn the sensor to pin 43 ( plug c2) on the PCM. The ground is shared with : the intake air temp sensor, coolant tep sensor, map sensor, tps, ac pressure switch and of course the cam sensor.

 

i think ya'll is chasing your tails. the crank sensor isn't going to cause the misfire.

start with the basics

get a real scanner and see what the pcm is seeing.
get the P..... codes with a scanner the key cycle dance routine for OBD2 cars are too generic to pinpoint the real problem

code 11 means several things like cam/crank signal loss OR Misfire at limit OR no crank signal at pcm OR timing belt jumped more than 1 tooth.

 

would the cam sensor not give code 54? how can i check timing quick as my timing light is in my home town im in a different city. also the battery terminals are mildly loose holding but i could turn then and take them off with out a wrench could that be the problem as well trying new ones i will after anyway but want to know if that could cause this problem? any help is great and thanks for the help i have already got you guys are great.

 

start with the basics for the misfire. plugs, wires, fuel, compression.

IDK how you'd check timing since there's no timing marks.

you need a real scanner to see Pcodes and read sensor data.

you can keep changing parts and guessing at what could be the problem or you can go about it with a logical approach. Factory service manuals are the best way to go. even generic manuals are good for basics. IE engine misfire, check plug wire resistance, check plugs, check compression, etc... the will walk you through all possible causes usually starting with the easiest.

check for vacuum leaks. intake gaskets are common sources for vacuum leaks causing misfire.

the BEST tool for checking cam/crank timing is a dual trace scope. this will easily detect a broken flex plate and detect glitches in sensor signals.

 

Actually a mil 11(aka flashing code) can mean "intermittent loss of either camshaft or crankshaft position sensor" (HEX code 9D, P code P1391), “No crank reference detected during engine cranking.” (HEX code 28 WITH NO P code equivalent), or “Mis-fire adaptive numerator at limit” (HEX code BA P code 1398). The adaptive misfire refers to “Crank sensor target windows have too much variation.” This code is caused by a widely varying signal from the crank sensor, and not the kind of misfire from a skipped tooth, unless it is slipping back and forth at a varied rate.

The use of a quality tool may be great if you have one, but because the question was asked via the check engine light method, I gave the information out of the schematic so he could proceeded with out it (I assume people who post in this fashion do not have the tool or the cash to buy one and I try to help the best I can). You may call this chasing my tail, I call it helping the best I can with limited resources.

While I also believe everyone should have a scanner, to this I'd add when my crank sensor went bad, I had no p code in memory, only the mil 11. This is because with the HEX code 28, there was no p code equivalent for it and the MIL lamp d/n flag either. If you have the service manual, you’ll note it has one asterisk next to the 11 (associated with HEX 28) which means the engine light w/n illuminate if this DTC was recorded. In this case, the key cycle dance pays off!

To answer snoro31, the difference with a code 54 is there is "no
camshaft signal detected at PCM during engine cranking. Because it is intermittent loss the 54 w/n flag. I'd also lean toward a sensor because as temp goes up, so does resistance. As for loose connectors on the battery, while it's always important to have a tight connection on the battery, if the connection is good enough to get the engine cranking and started, it shouldn't make a difference. Also, the 11 is for an intermittent loss of signal that has its power provided by the PCM. I think if the PCM lost power it wouldn't flag a sensor input to it (not to mention, with the engine running, the alt is providing power directly to the
car, not really the bat). Speaking of connectors, ensure the pin and sockets for the sensors are clean and tight.

 

still not the mans problem. cam sensor or crank sensor isn't what's causing the misfire.

i had a van 3.3 that wouldn't run at all, the guy I got it from installed a new cam sensor, new crank sensor, new coil pack, new pcm, new tps, new map sensor. he gave it to me for free cuz he was fed up. I connected a cheapo snapon mt2500 i bought for less than $500 and found the new cam sensor was bad. i put in a good used one, it ran perfect then sold the van for $1000

 

would the cam sensor not cause it to miss fire if it lost signal? it more the the negine shuts of for a quick second and then is fired back up it will idle smooth and then die totally and fire right back up.

 

and thank you both for the info i am hoping to get this sorted out.

 

sure it could cause it to quit. see here's the problem, we have no clue as to how your car runs. just reading your explaination leaves to a lot of speculation. if you makes you happy to install a new sensor have at it but the probability it fixes your problem is slim.

seems everyone wants the quick easy answer to why their car doesn't work. bad part is, in most cases, it's impossible to say with absolute certainty what that problem is.

Diagnosis starts with using one's senses of sound, feel, smell etc. then understanding what parts and components affect those systems.. the key to a good running engine is fuel burn quality. stuff like compression, timing, air-fuel ratio, spark condition, etc all effect the burn.

right from Factory chrysler service information I found via internet search. MIL flash code 11 can be what I listed. the P codes include: P1390 timing belt/chain skipped, P1398 misfire exceeded adjustment limit, P1391 intermittant cam/crank signal lost. I can tell you a broken flex plate can also cause code 11 and will cause misfire, stalling and loss of power