1st Gen Neon 1995 through 1999 Neons

Help, Have no idea whats wrong (engine related)

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  #1  
Old 05-25-2007 | 08:46 PM
Landers's Avatar
Landers
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Default Help, Have no idea whats wrong (engine related)

I have a 95 dodge neon with the 2.0 sohc.
I've been having a problem with the car since I bought it.

The car will start from a cold start fine, no problems there. But after I drive it for a while sometimes only a couple of miles. Its start acting up on me.

It starts to run like its bogging down, like its lost power.
Sounds like its backfiring through the air intake (like a spit and sputter). Its so bad that it starts jerking in gear and I'm lucky if I can go 5 miles an hour in first to find somewhere to pull of the road.

If I stop and let it cool down for a while its fine. It will start up rev like its suppose to and drive normal, but when warmed up...I guess to normal operating temperature it does the same thing. (although the temperature gauge does not read hot - its about half way between hot and cold)

I have recently replaced the thermostat, the head gasket, the timing belt and most recently the camshaft position sensor (because of codes it gave me).
The head gasket and timing belt were a total different issue.

This is what it did to me tonight on the way home after changing the camshaft position sensor and the spark plugs.
Started fine like normal. I got maybe 5 miles and the "check engine" light came on. I knew it was going to start doing what it always does. So I get on the next exit ramp off the interstate. by then its totally bogged down acting like its going to completely shut off. I pull over to the side of the road, engine light still on, but it keeps running (slugishly like its going to shut off). after a minute or two its starts reving real high (why it did this I have no idea.) so, I started out again and within another minute the battery light came on and the car died on me. Sitting along the side of the road for about 5 minutes has become a pass time for me (but not so favorite). anyway the car started back up and i got a mile or two and it goes through the whole process again. I think I get so far the first time from a cold start is because its cold and takes a while to warm to operating temp. Thats what happens, but sometimes it does rev real high like I stated it did tonight. Sometimes it just bogs out and I have to sit and wait. (and I have been told there is a strange smell coming from the car when its start doing this and someone I know is following me home.)

Anyway the codes I got are.

11 (twice) =Intermittent loss of either camshaft or crankshaft position sensor. / No crank reference signal detected during engine cranking. / Timing belt skipped 1 tooth or more from learned initial value.

12 = Direct battery input to pcm was disconnected within the last 50 key-on cycles. (due to disconnecting battery terminals - so this isnt a problem)

43 (twice) = Multiple /Single cylinder misfire

54 = No cam signal at PCM.

55 = End of error messages (again no issue)

This is why I replaced the camshaft position sensor ....which didnt change a damn thing.

Like I said the car starts up and runs fine from a cold start, its only when Its been running for a while and that is when I'm driving the vehicle does it do these things.

I've searched through the forums for people having the same issues, and a lot of what I saw, after the car is warm is O2 sensor. If thats the case then why didnt the error codes direct me toward the O2 sensor?
I just want the car to run like it does when Its first started up. runs great and drives good, shifts excellent. Its a good car except for this one major problem. I don't have the cash to keep buying this and buying that to see if its going to work. I need to pin point this problem so I can get the correct replacement part.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
  #2  
Old 05-25-2007 | 08:59 PM
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DOHCgarrett t3
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Default RE: Help, Have no idea whats wrong (engine related)

eh fuel pump but not sure on that one or like you stated 02 seonsor and the 02 sensor isint that much and battery like automaticly kicks on when the car dies anyways
 
  #3  
Old 05-25-2007 | 10:46 PM
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Default RE: Help, Have no idea whats wrong (engine related)

Sometimes the codes stay in the pcm, even after you change the part.Did you disconnect the battery for a good couple minutes.? Im guessing it could be your coil pack.After the car runs like puke for a bit, look under the car, and see if your cat convertor is getting cherry red.

How many miles are on the car, and has the coil pack ever been changed.?Im also trying to think if there is a camshaft position sensor AND a crankshaft position sensor, maybe it's the one you did'nt replace...you can buy a spark tester from an auto parts store, and hook it to a spark wire while its running, to see if its losing spark power, which is what sounds like is happening to me....I would say it's probably not the fuel pump, just because of the cylinder misfire, and my fuel pump has never given me probs..Im at 180,000 miles now...
So..my best guess...is coilpack...good luck .
 
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Old 05-26-2007 | 12:08 AM
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das2123
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Default RE: Help, Have no idea whats wrong (engine related)

Try to get the car scanned to get the P code...that will narrow down your problem.
 
  #5  
Old 05-26-2007 | 12:45 AM
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Landers
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Default RE: Help, Have no idea whats wrong (engine related)

Parts list from autozone

fuel pump - $198.99

o2 sensor
upstream - $44.95
downstream - $74.99

coil pack - $108.99

cat converter - $74.99

crankshaft position sensor - couldn't find it on website, but i'm guessing around $30-$40
unless I have to buy the wiring harness separate like I did with the camshaft position sensor (why would a company change the pins on a sensor and then expect you to pay another $28 for the wiring harness to mount it?)

I doubt the coil pack has ever been changed, the car has almost 148,000 miles on it. It does sound almost like its not firing on all cylinders. Have an old 74' harley that from time to time will run on one cylinder instead of both cylinders. kind of has that spit and sputter.

I removed each spark plug wire the other night when i got home to see if there was any difference or the car shut off will it was running like crap. the no.1 and no.4 spark plug wires disconnected didnt seem to make a difference whether they were connected or not.

With the codes Iam getting I figured the code for the multiple/single cylinder misfire either had something to do with me removing the plug wires while it was running or had to do with the camshaft position sensor not working correctly causing misfire due to fuel spark synchronization being off.

But even after I disconnected the battery for a good while and only got codes 12 and 55, code 43 = Multiple /Single cylinder misfirecame back up. That was after I disconnected plug wires while running but before I installed the new camshaft position sensor.

So it could have something to do with the coil, and with the spark tester what information will it give me?

another thing I wanted to add was when I did remove eack plug wire while it was having the problem I stated and it seemed like the no.1 and no.4 plug wires being off didnt make a difference...there was spark still jumping down the inside off the long rubber shaft on the no.1 and no.4 plug wire sparking to the headcover.
 
  #6  
Old 05-26-2007 | 12:48 AM
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Landers
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Default RE: Help, Have no idea whats wrong (engine related)

ORIGINAL: das2123

Try to get the car scanned to get the P code...that will narrow down your problem.

Where do I get the car scanned at? A dealership? Parts store, like autozone? I dont know what you mean by p-code. I called autozone asking them if they could hook it up on a machine or test it or something they said they only do cars 96' and up.
 
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Old 05-26-2007 | 12:56 AM
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das2123
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Default RE: Help, Have no idea whats wrong (engine related)

ORIGINAL: Landers
ORIGINAL: das2123
Try to get the car scanned to get the P code...that will narrow down your problem.
Where do I get the car scanned at? A dealership? Parts store, like autozone? I dont know what you mean by p-code. I called autozone asking them if they could hook it up on a machine or test it or something they said they only do cars 96' and up.
Autozone can give you the P code. It is a more informative code instead of just a code 43, it will tell you which cylinder is misfiring and so on. 95's are OBII-compliant, just not fully.

What kind of sparl plugs did you put in there?
 
  #8  
Old 05-26-2007 | 01:08 AM
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Landers
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Default RE: Help, Have no idea whats wrong (engine related)

ORIGINAL: das2123

ORIGINAL: Landers
ORIGINAL: das2123
Try to get the car scanned to get the P code...that will narrow down your problem.
Where do I get the car scanned at? A dealership? Parts store, like autozone? I dont know what you mean by p-code. I called autozone asking them if they could hook it up on a machine or test it or something they said they only do cars 96' and up.
Autozone can give you the P code. It is a more informative code instead of just a code 43, it will tell you which cylinder is misfiring and so on. 95's are OBII-compliant, just not fully.

What kind of sparl plugs did you put in there?


The hanes manual recommends champion RC9YC or equivalent. They had a champion copper 944 or something like that (not sure on the 944 number) suppose to be the equivalent. The old plugs I took out were bosch platinum v or whateverthey're called. It didnt make a difference to the problem I'm having since I've read a lot of things on this forum stating not to use platinum plugs. Can't tell a difference, and the problem is still the same. That didnt fix my issue.
 



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