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If you have stalling problems, LOOK HERE FIRST!!
#1
12-25-2005, 11:18 PM
If you have stalling problems, LOOK HERE FIRST!!
Allright guys, I wanted to let you know how I got rid of my stalling problems in my 1st Gen Neon. I have a '96 SOHC and after it would run a bit, it would just suddenly stall, for seemingly no reason. I would still have battery power, but the car would just die, kinda bucking a little as it would idle down with no power and just quit running. I have seen alot of posts about this happening to others, so I thought I would share my experience as myself and my mechanic (a good friend BTW) worked though this.
Going from least to most expensive...
First, if you have a model that has a metal fuel tank, change your fuel filter located just forward of your passenger side rear tire behind a thin metal shield. This helped even out the idle a little as it probably wasn't ever changed by the previous owner (supposed to be every 30k miles). It still stalled.
I then changed out the air filter and PCV valve, again helping the car run a little better, but still no dice.
I changed and properly gapped new spark plugs (non platinums are a must as I have read here *thanks*)
The mechanic changed the coil pack as it was throwing a code specifically for a coil problem. This however was a by product of the stalling as we later found out. I just had him leave the new coil pack on though. He checked the spark plug wires and they were new. The previous owner replaced them in beginning to try to find the cause of the stalling problem.
I then discovered, that what I thought was a rear main seal leak, was actually the Camshaft sensor leaking. The oil leaked down the block and dripped right where the oil would leak as if it was a rear main seal problem, right where the engineblock/transmission meets. My mechanic changed the cam sensor and plug (since it was wet with oil).
He also changed the auto tranny fluid/filter while he was at it. Even though this wouldn't necessarily help with the stalling problem, it seemed to help the tranny shift better, a little more crisp/positively and the tranny didnt seem to "drag" on the engine as much at idle while in drive.
We were however baffled when the car still had the stalling problem.
After checking the fuel pressure (it was right on, at 48-50 psi and not dropping off) he hooked his scanner and found that right when the car would die (we recreated driving conditions using throttle input while in park) that the crank and cam sensor would go out of sync. He replaced the CRANK sensor and plug and now the car is purring like a kitten, and has been for over 300 miles without a stall or sputter. I couldn't go over 10-15 miles before without the car dying and me having to wait a few minutes to fire it up again. I would have to limp it back home when this happened because it would stall every 3-5 minutes.
He also told me there is a low oil pressure sensor that would cause your vehicle to stall, however that shuts off the fuel pump, and since we didn't see a decrease in fuel pressure when it would stall, he ruled that out.
He also told me from his experiences, the vaccuum lines on these cars get brittle, weak and sometimes too soft in areas, that cause problems with them running properly. He recommended changing them out if they even have a hint of looking bad. This could cause stalling, bad idle and poor fuel economy as well as hanging brakes, basically anything that runs off of vaccuum.
I would like to thank RadarLove on this site for being so helpful. He is a great asset to this board and knows his stuff. I appreciate his effort in trying to help me and others here sort though these problems.
I thought I would contribute, and hopefully help someone out if I can.
--Ed
Going from least to most expensive...
First, if you have a model that has a metal fuel tank, change your fuel filter located just forward of your passenger side rear tire behind a thin metal shield. This helped even out the idle a little as it probably wasn't ever changed by the previous owner (supposed to be every 30k miles). It still stalled.
I then changed out the air filter and PCV valve, again helping the car run a little better, but still no dice.
I changed and properly gapped new spark plugs (non platinums are a must as I have read here *thanks*)
The mechanic changed the coil pack as it was throwing a code specifically for a coil problem. This however was a by product of the stalling as we later found out. I just had him leave the new coil pack on though. He checked the spark plug wires and they were new. The previous owner replaced them in beginning to try to find the cause of the stalling problem.
I then discovered, that what I thought was a rear main seal leak, was actually the Camshaft sensor leaking. The oil leaked down the block and dripped right where the oil would leak as if it was a rear main seal problem, right where the engineblock/transmission meets. My mechanic changed the cam sensor and plug (since it was wet with oil).
He also changed the auto tranny fluid/filter while he was at it. Even though this wouldn't necessarily help with the stalling problem, it seemed to help the tranny shift better, a little more crisp/positively and the tranny didnt seem to "drag" on the engine as much at idle while in drive.
We were however baffled when the car still had the stalling problem.
After checking the fuel pressure (it was right on, at 48-50 psi and not dropping off) he hooked his scanner and found that right when the car would die (we recreated driving conditions using throttle input while in park) that the crank and cam sensor would go out of sync. He replaced the CRANK sensor and plug and now the car is purring like a kitten, and has been for over 300 miles without a stall or sputter. I couldn't go over 10-15 miles before without the car dying and me having to wait a few minutes to fire it up again. I would have to limp it back home when this happened because it would stall every 3-5 minutes.
He also told me there is a low oil pressure sensor that would cause your vehicle to stall, however that shuts off the fuel pump, and since we didn't see a decrease in fuel pressure when it would stall, he ruled that out.
He also told me from his experiences, the vaccuum lines on these cars get brittle, weak and sometimes too soft in areas, that cause problems with them running properly. He recommended changing them out if they even have a hint of looking bad. This could cause stalling, bad idle and poor fuel economy as well as hanging brakes, basically anything that runs off of vaccuum.
I would like to thank RadarLove on this site for being so helpful. He is a great asset to this board and knows his stuff. I appreciate his effort in trying to help me and others here sort though these problems.
I thought I would contribute, and hopefully help someone out if I can.
--Ed
#2
12-26-2005, 08:05 AM
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RE: If you have stalling problems, LOOK HERE FIRST!!
Glad to be of help. My number one goal on these boards is to get peoples' Neons up and running again, hopefully with minimal cost and frustration...
The crank sensor normally throws a code if it goes out of synch... normally. This has popped up before on other sites, but most people have what's known as the "lurching and jerking syndrome" as opposed to just dying... also without codes more often than not. The PCM looks for a certain number of occurences before saving a code. Problem is, just once can cause the injectors (and coilpack) to lose their place, meaning you don't get enough fuel/spark when you need it, and the car can die, or lurch/jerk, etc. Most people turn off the ignition key (losing the code) and try to restart, and the code is lost forever. Good catch on your mechanic's part by scanning while the car was running. Most people don't have dataloggers... People much smarter (well, more experienced) than me figured that one out though...
From experience, the low oil pressure sensor won't cause the car to stall. I can't count the number of hard right turns I've made and felt my heart in my throat as the oil light blinked on for a second (or two, or three...). Running out of oil and seizing (or nearly seizing) the engine will... Very much looking forward to my crank scraper/windage tray setup
Again, glad to hear your car is up and at it!
The crank sensor normally throws a code if it goes out of synch... normally. This has popped up before on other sites, but most people have what's known as the "lurching and jerking syndrome" as opposed to just dying... also without codes more often than not. The PCM looks for a certain number of occurences before saving a code. Problem is, just once can cause the injectors (and coilpack) to lose their place, meaning you don't get enough fuel/spark when you need it, and the car can die, or lurch/jerk, etc. Most people turn off the ignition key (losing the code) and try to restart, and the code is lost forever. Good catch on your mechanic's part by scanning while the car was running. Most people don't have dataloggers... People much smarter (well, more experienced) than me figured that one out though...
From experience, the low oil pressure sensor won't cause the car to stall. I can't count the number of hard right turns I've made and felt my heart in my throat as the oil light blinked on for a second (or two, or three...). Running out of oil and seizing (or nearly seizing) the engine will... Very much looking forward to my crank scraper/windage tray setup
Again, glad to hear your car is up and at it!