The PCI bus for HEMI is pin 38 on C1 but my wiring harness (04 Durango) does not have that pin installed. If I knew that pin was still active but not used on the 04 PCM that would be one thing, I don't think thats the case though. The techs at the dealership found that the 03 Ram has the NGC (Next Gen Controller) which supports both PCI and CAN busses and it was the only one they pulled up showing the PCI bus. I know there have to be more HEMI PCMs out there with it, the trouble is finding them. I'd be all for just picking up the 03 Ram PCM and slapping that in there, but once again, the 04 wiring harness doesn't have pin 38 on C1, and a lot of the pins are similar but many have also been swapped (coil #s, fuel injectors, sensors, etc...).

 

Did you pick up 2004 Durango or Ram PCM and harness? I not sure if they are different or not I just know that I have a 2004 Ram PCM and harness in my 2004 Ram Hemi/1998 Dak swap and C1#38 pin is the PCI bus. I don't know where you got the idea the 2004 use a two wire bus.

In my swap I had to utilize a 2002 (1 wire PCI) gauge cluster instead of my 1998 (2 wire CCD bus gauge cluster. So if you have 2004 Ram PCM it so should not have any trouble with your gauges.

I had to get a smaller brake booster and shifted it 3/4" to clear the valve covers, but that has alot to do with how you mount the engine, 2wd vs. 4wd and body lift or not.

 

My harness and PCM are both 04 Durango. I was told by the dealership that Durangos are usually the guinea pigs so the 04 got had the newer systems in place and the other vehicles would follow suit the year after. The 04s did drop pin #38 as the PCI interface and switched to a faster (real time) two wire system called CAN bus. They actually have three different CAN networks in the 04, CAN B, CAN C, and CAN D. They all operate at different speeds and interface at a central hub called the front control module.

CAN B is the slower of the three networks and interfaces the seat controls, mirrors, instrument cluster, radio, radio amp, climate control, restraint systems, sentry key, overhead console, and driver memory.

CAN C (as far as my drawings show) only connects to the antilock brake controller and the PCM

CAN D.... I know its there but I don't see any info on what it actually does.

34 D65 20YL/RD CAN C BUS (+)
35 D64 20WT/LB CAN C BUS (-)


So yeah... Anyways, I think my only way out of this is to find a 03-04 Ram PCM then. I'd rather not have to change wire harnesses since everything is already installed and torqued.

One question for you 69rrbruce.... On the 04 Durango, that was the year they introduced the EGR system. Did the Ram have EGR that year too? I think its just the Durango since that was the guinea pig but I just want to check because I'm running an engine equipped with it. I'll bypass it if I have to though.

 

yes , all hemi powered vehicles came with egr in 04..

 

O3 Ram PCM - This only controls the engine, so you would have to get the separate TCM for the trans. This PCM has the least options for aftermarket tuning. I would suggest going this route.

04 Ram PCM - This controls both engine & trans. This PCM is what came wih my Hemi and aftermarket tuning is available for the engine but not for the trans.

O5 Ram PCM - This controls both engine & trans. Atermarket tuning is available for both engine and trans. I've compared the 2004 & 2005 Ram PCM pinouts and they are the same. In order to get both engine & trans tuning I'm contemplateing switching to a 2005 Ram PCM, so I would suggest you go that route right away.

Engine wiring harness: Does the Durango harness have the 38 pin connectors? If not you will need to get a corresponding harness. If so, you could re-pin the connector to match the PCM pin-outs.

As far as EGR goes, I believe the 2003 Rams didn't have it, but 2004 & newer do. I have blocked mine off as I didn't want it. A custom tune would be required to turn it off without a CEL.

 

The 03 Ram controller you're saying will only run the engine is probably the JTEC (3 plug interface). They used both the JTEC as well as the NGC (4x38 plugs) at least up to 05 (was talking with dealership and they said 05 used both types) so I guess it just depends on your set up.

Yeah, the Durango harness uses the 38 pin plugs (NGC), but the wiring is a little different I think. Some of the coils and injectors used different pins and a few other things are swapped, at least between 03 Ram and 04 Durango.


What I really need/want to know right now is:

1- Does pin #38 on C1 (PCI bus) stay active on all NGC units regardless of vehicle programming or does it rely on specific vehicle programming (VIN, model, etc) to activate it and transmit/receive data?

I already have a 04 Durango PCM but my wiring diagrams don't show pin 38 and the harness doesn't have the pin or wire installed. If the pin is still active on the controller then I could install the pin in the connector (C1) and link it to my trucks wiring.


2- Does the 05 Ram NGC PCM have pin #38 on C1 (PCI bus) active? I know 03 does and sounds like 04 too, but my engine is a 05 and if the 05 PCM has the PCI bus then why not shoot for the matching controller?

 

I'll try and answer your questions
1. No........if pin #38 is shown connected on the pin-out for the particular PCM then it's active. Your 04 Durango PCM uses the two wire Can C bus on pins #34 & 35 instead.
2. I wouldn't even consider the 03 Ram PCM for reasons previously mentioned. The 04 / 05 PCM use one wire PCI bus on pin #38. I believe your 02 Dakota also uses the one wire PCI bus. I thought you had a 2004 engine????

I've compared the pin-outs for the 04/05 Ram PCM's and they are the same. I've compared the 02 Durango (NCG) PCM with the 04/05 Ram PCM and eight C1, five C3 & one C4 connector pins are different.

Having gone thru the wiring of a Hemi swap I would suggest you find a PCM that matches your 02 Dakotas PCM as close as possible. Based on what I've found, I would use a 05 Ram PCM.

If I recall correctly three of the connectors are between the PCM and the engine & trans which is the harness you have. If you change to a Ram PCM you will have to re-pin the wires per the new PCM or get a matching wiring harness.

The fourth connector is between the PCM and your Dakota and is where most of the splicing will take place. Just compare the wiring diagrams for the Dakota and the PCM connector and re-pin/splice/add wires accordingly.

In addition to the tuning info I stated previously you should know that DiabloSport tuners don't support the 2004 Durango's PCM.

My best advice, is to stop taking advice from the techs at the dealership and get intimate with the wiring diagrams of you Dakota and whatever PCM you decide to use.

Hopefully you are up to the task & good luck with the swap!

 

Engine is from 05 Ram 1500. I was planning on using a 04 Durango harness and PCM until I ran into the network issue.

Where are you getting the wiring information from? I found a .pdf a couple months ago that shows all the wiring and connections for the Durango but I have yet to find anything for the 02 Dakota or 05 Ram. If I had the controller and wiring finished, the dumb thing would be running right now...

 

Actually, I found the bodybuilder site so I have the Ram wiring. I just need the 02 Dakota wiring info (bodybuilder only goes back to 04).

 

Specifically, I'm trying to find the pinouts for C106 and C107 (I think) in the power distribution center. C106 should be a 24 pin connector and C107 is a 10 pin connector. I looked at the 04 Dakota wiring on bodybuilder, the plugs seem to have similar wire colors but I want to find the 02 pinouts to verify.