Hi all. Seen and read EVERY post on EVERY site regarding this issue with no luck. Advice desperately needed.

2005 Dodge Neon SE, 2.0, 4 speed automatic,120k miles. P0016 code. Car starts easily and runs great (actually one of the smoothest running neons I have ever seen) until you attempt to accelerate and rpms exceed 3500. At that time the engine sputters as if it is hitting a limiter. No stalls, no other codes, runs like a dream except for the P0016 code and the above 3500 rpm thing.

What I have done. Replaced timing belt, water pump, tensioner at 105k miles. Have verified timing marks twice in the past 10 days (yes...I tore it down and checked twice just to make sure my eyes weren't lying...got pics to prove it this time!). Replaced both the crankshaft and the camshaft sensors and the tone magnet on the camshaft. Checked all wiring to both CMS and CKS. Checked all grounds to engine. Manually rotated engine while on voltmeter and measured CMS voltage from 5 to 0.5. Compression checks good and even on all cylinders. Spark plugs are new, copper and gapped correctly. Injectors clean and spray nicely. Fuel pump is relatively new and delivers within spec. Nothing aftermarket and no foreign or non-2005 parts.

Would love any new ideas. I am considering the crankshaft tone ring, but I have no idea on how to check and would appreciate any information on how this can be examined for less money than the car is worth. I know I can get a scope and look...but HOW? Open what and look where? Thank you for your time and expertise.

 

Welcome to the 2nd Gen Neon forum.

I see you don't yet have any replies, so will see if I can get things started. Have a read here https://www.obd-codes.com/p0016 on what the code means & a list of suspects to check out.
Go here, https://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/ch...-of-articles-1, scroll down & have a read on how to check the Crank & Cam sensors. If all that & the wiring, electrical connectors & their pins/sockets to the sensors check out ok, are you certain the replacement timing belt tensioner is applying the proper belt tension???

You seem to have done some of the checks but not others. Did you have the P0016 code Before the work & parts replacement???? Some beginning thoughts for consideration, let us know what you find.

 

I thank you for the reply. I have been through both threads without success...I have been very thorough about checking the posts for any dodge 2.0 vehicle as this engine crosses many platforms. I verified the correct adjustment on the tensioner using a mirror and making sure the metal pin aligned exactly between the marks. I also checked the cam and crank sensors per the instructions and both checked out fine. The code was thrown 20k miles after the timing belt et. al. replacement and was the sole source of trouble. The only thing that I am hesitant about is the replacement of the camshaft sensor with an aftermarket brand, but I do have the mopar one ordered and on its way. Mathmatically speaking, it would be a low chance of having one fail and then getting a faulty replacement, but I coughed up the $65 anyways as some have mentioned non-OEM issues. I would like to check the cam and crank tone rings, but can not find information on how this can be done in detail. Maybe I could pull the crank sensor and scope the hole, but I wouldn't know what I was looking at... I understand it is a thin plate with grooves, but little else.

 

OK, good feedback, so lets think about this some more. Since the code came 20K After the timing belt replacement, the belt & tensioner are lower down on but not off the suspect list for now.
Did the problem come about slowly over time, or suddenly after some event, like soon after the cam sensor replacement??? If its a Dorman cam sensor, its earned its place on a lot of suspect lists, so with that reputation probably not a bad idea to go for a OEM Mopar part.


Do you have, or can borrow, or otherwise come by the inexpensive but powerful ELM scan tool like this & running a diagnostic software on the viewing device of your choice, so to have it take a more in-depth scan for manufacturer codes, as they can offer up good trouble shooting clues & help focus a trouble shoot. The ELM with a good software can also put up live PID data on our viewing device, so we can monitor in table, graphic, or numerical form, sensor live data feeds the ECM is getting, so can often spot a faulty reference voltage to the sensor, or corrupt sensor PID output to the ECM & thus focus a trouble shoot..

Since you seem to like turning your own wrenches, on the tone ring question, have a look in the no cost Field Service Manual link moderator darthroush put up in RED at the bottom of his #2 post here https://dodgeforum.com/forum/2nd-gen...ml#post2459990. Click on the year range of your vehicle to open the manual.

 

I've checked the belt and tensioner thoroughly, twice...100% sure it's not the source. It was a sudden event. One day it ran fine...the next, not so much. No engine-related work had been done on the car since the timing belt change, except for oil changes and brakes. I am using a Zurich ZR13 for OBDII and it does support a limited amount of live data (it's how I nailed down the rpm as the car has no tach). I'll pick up the ELM tool. What data points am I looking for?

I have requested access to the Field Services Link. I have tested both wiring and sensors using the guidelines laid out in this video: https://www.google.com/search?client...S7tgXs-JyIDg38. All tests were ok.

I appreciate your guidance.

 

On accessing the FSM, it sounds like you didn't stay on the #2 post in the link, as all you should have to do is under the bold black letters (2nd Gen Neon) find & click on the Red (03-05) year range, to open the FSM.
Did the trouble code come about After the Cam Sensor replacement???

 

On the ZR13 scan tool, its more than a code reader, so that's good, if it'll put up live streaming data. So plug it in, erase the P0016 code & go for a test drive cycle that causes the vehicle to act up & see if it can capture & display some snapshot clues like acting out fuel trim or ignition timing readings, or store something in the snapshot mode when the P0016 trouble code is reset, that might offer up some clues that might help focus a trouble shoot.
If you have a fuel pressure gauge, you might also hook it up & tape it to the windshield so you can see it while driving to see if it acts out when the vehicle lays down around 3600 rpm.

If you have a Inductive type timing light, hook it up & see if it can spot an ignition timing problem from idle up to 3600 rpm, or at the rpm it lays down at, after the drive.

Some videos I've seen of the ZR13 say it doesn't put up live streaming data, some say it does, but none say it can graph data, even though their advertising says it can, so not sure what they've done with how its programmed. If its not doing all its advertised to do & comes with a program update link, try updating its diagnostic programming, as the review videos I've seen say its supposed to be able to do that & access manufacturers enhanced trouble code retrieval, so maybe it can access more than just global codes & maybe some are set that would help focus this trouble shoot.

Good feedback on the problem coming about suddenly, like overnight on the next day start-up. Don't know just what to make of that just yet, but its a good clue we need to keep in the back of our minds, while searching for more input to tie things together.

If your going to order the ELM scan tool, consider vendor BAFX, as they warranty it to work as advertised & folks on TCCA & FTE forums say their support is real, so if you have some problems with it, or need help on set up, customers on those forums say they support the product after the purchase. More thoughts for pondering.

 

First off - paw paw, thank you so much for your advice!

It turned out that, not only did the camshaft sensor go bad and start this nightmare, but the replacement was defective as well! I shelled out the $60 for the Mopar replacement and the car runs like new. As much as I did not want to believe that the first replacement was not defective, that turned out to be the cause of my grief. Lessoned learned. Electrical = MOPAR only!

 

Ok, good feedback & to hear the Mopar cam sensor seems to have put things right & your on the road again. By chance was the faulty replacement cam sensor a Dorman????

 

I am in the same boat. 2005 SXT 132K 2.0. The only thing left is the ring. The engine light was on when I purchased and after the timing belt change. I reset the codes many times. Here is what I have seen (some obvious):
-NO cruise when code is in effect.
-When codes are reset time varies when it returns, majority of time right away. Cruise works. No hesitation @3K+ RPM
-AC compressor is noisy when code is active.
-Idle is smooth and compressor is quiet when inactive.

Ive about had it.