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thanks, and as for the dent your guess is as good as mine, the PO did it and its puzzled me as to what could have done that lol. in the spring im hoping to hammer it out and paint it as well as the chip that came off when i pulled off my ram1500 emblem and the small dent on the door when my GF decided to throw our picture (in a metal frame) at my truck. lol, not one of my happiest moments.