? Vortex "turbonators"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
RE: ? Vortex "turbonators"
ORIGINAL: HankL
However,
it should be pointed out
that the new 5.7 V8 iForce in the Toyota Tundra
the 2006+ Ford 5.4V8s
and several BMW model engines
are using 'swirl valves' near the end of the intake runners
to improve part throttle torque and fuel economy.
The important factor here is that these "swirl valves" are near the end of the intake runners, where they can actually create some turbulence to better mix the air and fuel. The V-generators that are for sale in the Mags are all placed right after the airbox, where they do NOTHING but rob your wallet. They have been around long enough that if they worked, everyone would own one.
You will notice that if you fly a lot that most of the new commercial aircraft have vertical
additions at the wing tips to block this stream of vortexes, which increase fuel consumption.
I think (hope) you meant that they decrease fuel consumption. The "winglets", which you are referring to, reduce fuel consumption on a Boeing 757 by 3%. This amounts to somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 gallons of fuel per year. This is a multi-million dollar modification will pay for itself in less than 3 years at a typical major airline (United, American, etc.)
However,
it should be pointed out
that the new 5.7 V8 iForce in the Toyota Tundra
the 2006+ Ford 5.4V8s
and several BMW model engines
are using 'swirl valves' near the end of the intake runners
to improve part throttle torque and fuel economy.
The important factor here is that these "swirl valves" are near the end of the intake runners, where they can actually create some turbulence to better mix the air and fuel. The V-generators that are for sale in the Mags are all placed right after the airbox, where they do NOTHING but rob your wallet. They have been around long enough that if they worked, everyone would own one.
You will notice that if you fly a lot that most of the new commercial aircraft have vertical
additions at the wing tips to block this stream of vortexes, which increase fuel consumption.
I think (hope) you meant that they decrease fuel consumption. The "winglets", which you are referring to, reduce fuel consumption on a Boeing 757 by 3%. This amounts to somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 gallons of fuel per year. This is a multi-million dollar modification will pay for itself in less than 3 years at a typical major airline (United, American, etc.)
Professional
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From:
RE: ? Vortex "turbonators"
i think he meant that the vortexs increase the fuel not the winglettes. but the swirling idea has been here from atleast the 80s. i had a 1988 Pontiac Trans AM 305 TBI motor, basically the california motor cuz it had swirls in the heads to help the mixture mix and burn. but all it really did was block air flow into the cylinder and make less power.
Champion
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,313
Likes: 8
RE: ? Vortex "turbonators"
A study of 'real' vortex generators by Mitusbishi
at a time when 30% of their stock was owned by DaimlerChrysler:
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/cor...004/16E_03.pdf
this resulted in the 'spikes' you see on the roofs of some Lancers
at a time when 30% of their stock was owned by DaimlerChrysler:
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/cor...004/16E_03.pdf
this resulted in the 'spikes' you see on the roofs of some Lancers
Record Breaker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,015
Likes: 0
From: White Salmon Wa
RE: ? Vortex "turbonators"
yeah they add more drag in the intake... the restriction points are the trottle body butterfly, the ducting to the air from the throttle body, the air filter, and then the intake runners themselves.
the intake on these things are like beer kegs cut in half with 90 and 45 degree angles. hmm let's think here for a moment.. a swirl that happens before the air filter, before the throttle body, before the runners... do you really think that the swirl will still be there? hmm nope. even if you do have an aftermarket air intake it still won't help because the air doesn't mix with the fuel until it's in the combustion chamber. hmm yeah gotta love four stroke technology in a MPI engine.air in fuel in spark exaust... guess what that swirl does even if it does make it to the chamber... nothing.
though it would be possible to work on a carbed engine as the air mixes with the fuel before the chamber, but then it just sits behind the valve until it's opened anyway and doesn't do anything to begin with.
the only advantage with those things is to slow down the air going into the trottle body and make it so that less air goes in and less fuel is injected into the engine to keep a proper air fuel ratio. hmm that might just work for fuel consumption but then again to get the power back from reducing the fuel into the engine you have to open it up more and then you're right back to where you started.
all in all ican't say it better than that picture does. one big pile of doggy doo doo.
the intake on these things are like beer kegs cut in half with 90 and 45 degree angles. hmm let's think here for a moment.. a swirl that happens before the air filter, before the throttle body, before the runners... do you really think that the swirl will still be there? hmm nope. even if you do have an aftermarket air intake it still won't help because the air doesn't mix with the fuel until it's in the combustion chamber. hmm yeah gotta love four stroke technology in a MPI engine.air in fuel in spark exaust... guess what that swirl does even if it does make it to the chamber... nothing.
though it would be possible to work on a carbed engine as the air mixes with the fuel before the chamber, but then it just sits behind the valve until it's opened anyway and doesn't do anything to begin with.
the only advantage with those things is to slow down the air going into the trottle body and make it so that less air goes in and less fuel is injected into the engine to keep a proper air fuel ratio. hmm that might just work for fuel consumption but then again to get the power back from reducing the fuel into the engine you have to open it up more and then you're right back to where you started.
all in all ican't say it better than that picture does. one big pile of doggy doo doo.
