This thread is going to mislead the readers and, you need to be careful of what you post because, some of that info such as noted above, is not correct.

The 5.2 is NOT supposed to be running 24 lb flow rate injectors and, it requires a program mod to make that work- just like I did in mine with those 947s. Those are for a 5.9 engine and, what your doing there is dumping tons of fuel into the chamber running it very rich. IT's beyond the MIN MAX values set forth at the fuel trim parameters.

I've done a ton of work in this area and, some of those damn Hawaii Five O injectors that he says are new are remans, rebuilds and, I've measured the electrical characteristics on those and they were all over the map and, the finish on those things sucks. It's not even meeting OEM specs to the finish. I dislike his injector remans. He says they are new- BS. I have ordered and returned them because they were faulty and NOT new.

This thread is going to mislead the crap out of people. I see the intent and while it's a good idea 100%, the information is not correct. Take the time to research (Please) before posting.


ALL Injectors have a flow rate difference / spec

ALL injectors have to meet the envelope package / distance between the rails (no exceptions)

ALL injectors have a connection and termination style that is to match the harness (can be modified)

ALL injectors have an O-ring tolerance and ID and OD spec and, not all are the same. It is NOT standard across the board. (No exceptions)

ALL injectors have an OHM spec that varies and, on some models, there's a strict OHM requirement that must be met in order to work with the PCM injector driver CKT. For example, the SPEC for a 2001 injector is 12 OHMs ±1 OHM. So, if you drop in an injector with an OHM reading of ~15 OHMs, (on Five-O injector -blues, I measured 16 OHMs) it's going to throw the CKT out of whack.

ALL injectors have to meet ID and OD for the intake ports respectively so, unless your going to put all the data up for each one, this thread is going to cause serious confusion among Dodge Forum users. I don't mean to come off as mad or arrogant, I'm not. Not at all. I'm just concerned that someone who does not know about injector technology is going to install something that is not going to work or be safe.

Either correct the errors and misinformation (please) or, kill this thread before it leads to someone putting in an injector that's not designed for the circuit / engine size.

The larger the engine, the more A/F mixture it requires. One can NOT dump a 26 lb injector into any motor and, there's a table that depicts flow rate vs. HP ratings along with the OEM recommended flow rates. For, if you change the flow rate, and, it falls outside the upper limit set forth at the PCM, it will have to be compensated for at the PCM program level thus requiring one to re-flash the PCM for those injectors and, in order to get accurate information on WHAT to set the fuel trims to, one is going to need a A/F guage installed / wide band tuning system to determine WHAT to program the fuel trim parameter to.

CM

 

Thanks CM. I did not know about the Ohm ratings. And I remember your thread about your experience with Five0 remans. I also noticed that the EV1 connectors on my 1996 did not fit into the electrical prongs and the prongs seemed too thin. But when i got the new EV1 connectors it fixed the missfire problems. However, i think the missfires were because i did not have the thin metal/wire tabs that go on the bottom of the connector to keep them in place. That make the connection loose.

Also CM, what Bosch injectors do you have? because I have been running the Bosch 24s and have had no problems. I pull random spark plugs every month or two (mainly because i am bored) so I can see how the mixture is running (after about 1/4 mile of WOT).

If you could, can you check the injectors that i listed and post which ones have the correct ohm rating. There has been lots of talk about using different injectors. But if you click on the injector link, you will see that it has a vehicle type and year at the bottom. So the consumer knows if it fits their application.


QUICK QUESTION:

If someone is running boost, they need a bigger injector. So all that is needed is to match the Ohm rating to the flow rate that you are looking for...right?

CM, I was hoping that you would chime in with this thread, as I know you are the forum expert in fuel injectors. I just did the legwork to find a bunch of injectors. And I was halfway baiting you to prove/disprove anything i was saying. If there were an injector thread in this forum for people to go to that had good information it would make DF better.

 

The Bosch injectors I had were OEM with a hi-temp epoxy coated METAL body. They were 800.00 for a set and were one hole type. The remans from Five O, are what you've got there. (from the pic you showed me) I can also tell by the finish as well that those are not the OEM model that I used to run. I no longer run those in my Dodge. I sold them and run the OEM spec-d 22 lb Siemens that are army green / black top, 12.5 OHM model.

Now, one needs to be aware of something when changing the wiring harness. There's something in the fine details that is always overlooked when splicing in new connectors. It also corresponds with the mating half- the injectors.

The OEM design specs out the harness to the injector mating interference on those connections. There's a male / female interference spec that must be adhered to for, if one fails to take note of this fine detail, the end result is intermittent connections at the termination due to PLAY inside this terminating point of contact.

Not all injectors are spec'd the same way nor made exactly the same way using the same materials so, variation is the enemy here. What you end up with in a nutshell is, A MISMATCH AT THE BLADE CONTACTS. This is the root cause for a failure I was having for a few days after changing injectors. If one does not know this, they automatically assume the injectors are bad and rip them out without really knowing the root cause for the failure.

I found this out the hard way. My PCM was tripping every ten seconds and, the idiot lamp was going bananas after an injector change. I knew the only change was injectors. It drove me bonkers. I then noted something by EYE while looking at both injectors side by side.

What I noted was that the BOSCH BT- injectors had a DIFFERENT BLADE spec than the Siemens ok, and, it was so great that, it caught my eye right away. The brain already knew what the root cause was. Using a pair of calipers, I measured them both and noted a delta of 20 mils. I flipped up the OEM harness and measured the GAP.

Well, lo and behold, that GAP at OEM spec was already spec'd to meet the Siemens thicker blade contact but, due to aging, this gap had opened up considerably thus compounding the issue even further.

This is why it's extremely important to pay attention to the fine details. Not too many are aware of this and, I've seen this more times than you can imagine. Now, when I have someone come to the shop here with that same OBD code, I ask: "Did you change your injectors" YES- pop the hood and start measuring- here's your problem. Your injectors do not meet OEM spec for contact blade thickness thus inducing an intermittent condition.

Corrective action: either change the harness type to meet the interference requirement or, change out the injectors to OEM spec.

Now, let's cover the next area of concern: Reman injectors.

In lieu of your question, I need to inform / educate you on something. We have a problem - not your request but, reality of you not seeing the big picture. You had requested me to look up and post which injectors have the correct OHM rating.

This is where we have a problem. Well, what's the problem you ask? The problem is that we are talking about reman / rebuilds and, I can't tell you how many damn times they list it as one thing on the web site but when it comes to me in my shop- it's way off. Like 2- OHMs above the MAX acceptable limit. If you were to install those, YES- they will still open and close and allow fuel to enter into the combustion chamber but, the PCM may not be able to control them 100% as intended.

What a lot of these places do is simply COPY the damn specs off the OEM sites and then paste them into their own HTML formatted version. This is why we have a problem. What you see is not what you get. I'm sure you follow me now.

This is why it's critical to get the right injectors that MEET OEM spec.

Now, I've got to run and rewire a PT cruiser directional control module back together before the owner returns to pick it up at midnight. I will continue later on this topic.

CM

 

Found the bosch 24s for 275:
http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sh...od&productId=4

THey are the same as mine. YOu can check my pictures with the part numbers in my photo albums. I would call the guy at FIC to ask him if they have 4 holes...just to be sure.

Here are all the REBUILT injectors that FIC makes for dodge. FIC is the company from the youtube video. they are 169 per set of 8. So they are WAY cheaper. And you can get the 19 lb yellows or the 24# blues.
http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sh...ewCat&catId=13

--Dan

 

THANKS CM,

I got you now. It is not what is POSTED, it is what you measure when you get them.

And YES, I had the blade thickness issue, JUST like you said. This is the number one reason why I left the injector connectors ON THE INJECTORS when I took them out of my 1996. I did not want to mess them up.

I see the big picture now.

 

Here's another one. I was just recently emailed regarding a FIT issue with aftermarket injectors. I think this is important to point out a real world case that just came to my attention.

CASE: Injector safety clip / retention groove is not molded to OEM spec'd length in regards to length from top of the injector to center of groove. For the sake of argument, OEM L1 is .500 from top to groove and, after market is .250.

This creates two problems:

1. Does not meet OEM specs. Fuel rail to intake length is offset.

This puts the injector tip .250 BEYOND the O-ring groove at the intake thus rolling the o-rings, deforming them thue leading to a huge vacuum leak. Remembering, tops leak fuel, lowers leak air.

2. Even worse problem is the fact that the tops may not be engaged far enough into the fuel rail cup thus causing a possible fuel leak when under pressure.

This creates potential risk for the worst kind of failure- fuel injector o-ring failure due to not being seating / engaged far enough into the fuel cup thus causing an engine bay fire thus leading to a Car-BQ.

CM

 

Here's a set of 4 hole injectors that are suppose to be plug and play for our 99 and older trucks. I've sent another email to bruce from five-o asking if these really are to make sure but they should be from what he's saying.

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/domes...rs/?itemid=295

 

Oops, I thought you meant 99+

 

The Bosch 24s have two grooves in their injectors. When lined up with the red injectors (the stock ones) there is not a difference, but if you line up the first line, they will only be about .250 inch in the rail.

So I used the second line. Check the Bosch 24s and you will see that they have TWO grooves. Use the second ones! I got the same PM and I completely forgot that they had two grooves.

--Dan

 

That information was not presented in the PM. However, on OEM injectors that do NOT have universal tops, this is going to be an issue thus pushing the o-ring .250 beyond the seal lip at the intake port and, unless your rails have a Z-adjustment like mine do, you can't compensate for it at the rail.

CM