looks like I figured out my mis issue
#22
The dreaded "stop leak" for the radiator ...I did some reading and they use sodium silicate or "liquid glass" as well as copper which can have bad effects and plug heater cores and such if not used exactly as directions say, if too much is used or if the cooling system isnt flushed PRIOR to using it.
I also found GM has been buying a form of this stuff for years now from bars and using a small amount to seal up new cars when they are built so it cant be all that bad when used responsibly... It gets a bad rap from the stuff that goes into the oil which has nothing to do with how this stuff works.
I also saw some video footage that race car drivers have been premixing it with antfreeze and adding it to race cars for years.
I'm more worried about what the PO had done to it before I bought it...
Lets face it the heater core,radiatior and block all look to be original or close to it and have 147,000 on them...the stop leak I used was a small amount and was used to stop a leaky soft plug between the tranny and engine which I've since replaced when the tranny was pulled.... I really dont believe the stuff had anything to do with any of my issues, After reading up on how it works I believe it have had some positive effects on heater core life...
I know there are many here who have no personal experience with the stuff who want to chime in and repeat what they've heard from a friend or article (I'm guilty as being one of those people at times) but the truth is most people are too lazy to use the stuff the right way....just flushing the cooling system first would be too much for many who used this stuff out of lazyness... I used it out of necessity at the time because a used truck I just bought had already taken me to the poorhouse... If I had the time ,money and knowhow I would have pulled everything apart just to look for all the stuff that was waiting to fail... At the time I had a rear end that needed a new pinion bearing and a front end that needed major work and half assed brake lines that needed replacement as well as body work to redo once I discovers it was done with bondo over masking tape...
I also found GM has been buying a form of this stuff for years now from bars and using a small amount to seal up new cars when they are built so it cant be all that bad when used responsibly... It gets a bad rap from the stuff that goes into the oil which has nothing to do with how this stuff works.
I also saw some video footage that race car drivers have been premixing it with antfreeze and adding it to race cars for years.
I'm more worried about what the PO had done to it before I bought it...
Lets face it the heater core,radiatior and block all look to be original or close to it and have 147,000 on them...the stop leak I used was a small amount and was used to stop a leaky soft plug between the tranny and engine which I've since replaced when the tranny was pulled.... I really dont believe the stuff had anything to do with any of my issues, After reading up on how it works I believe it have had some positive effects on heater core life...
I know there are many here who have no personal experience with the stuff who want to chime in and repeat what they've heard from a friend or article (I'm guilty as being one of those people at times) but the truth is most people are too lazy to use the stuff the right way....just flushing the cooling system first would be too much for many who used this stuff out of lazyness... I used it out of necessity at the time because a used truck I just bought had already taken me to the poorhouse... If I had the time ,money and knowhow I would have pulled everything apart just to look for all the stuff that was waiting to fail... At the time I had a rear end that needed a new pinion bearing and a front end that needed major work and half assed brake lines that needed replacement as well as body work to redo once I discovers it was done with bondo over masking tape...
Last edited by Augiedoggy; 02-09-2012 at 08:35 AM.
#23
My God, who uses that blue injector? That rascal is PUMPING.. WAY too much (I'm guessing, based on what other injectors that were OE are)..
The 'red' injectors pump 23.6# @ 43.5psi rail pressure, and @ 80% duty cycle..
p/n XR3E, the 'blue/green' tipped FMS pump 24# @ 43.5psi rail pressure, 80%dc..
p/n XF2E-C4B 'black tip'- 19# @43.5psi/80%dc..
Bosch makes all three of those injectors.. the numbers can be bounced off of Bosch's charts, and reconciled off of the link provided..
the confusion REALLY kicks in when you start talking about fuel pressure..
I'm not sure what was being asked, but if you could ask it again, I'll try to answer..
the key discovery I made is that the red injectors are NOT 22#, they are 23.6, and @ 43.5psi, NOT 49psi.. which means they are delivering quite a bit more fuel than I previously thought.. I'd be scared to guess just how much more fuel though- because: if you were to put two injectors side by side that deliver the same amount of fuel @ a determined amount of pressure, if you jack with the pressure- all bets are off on how they are going to react.. one may start DUMPING fuel, and the other may maintain the same scale of delivery..
as far as ohms are concerned, it's my understanding THAT is one of the most crucial matches for interchanging injectors.. you want zero surprises between the PCM and those injectors.. you gotta figure, those things open and close at a silly high rate- the difference in a percentage of duty cycle is what, parts of milliseconds? any mis-understanding there, and you're going to have funky reactions you will spend a lot of time tracking down..
The 'red' injectors pump 23.6# @ 43.5psi rail pressure, and @ 80% duty cycle..
p/n XR3E, the 'blue/green' tipped FMS pump 24# @ 43.5psi rail pressure, 80%dc..
p/n XF2E-C4B 'black tip'- 19# @43.5psi/80%dc..
Bosch makes all three of those injectors.. the numbers can be bounced off of Bosch's charts, and reconciled off of the link provided..
the confusion REALLY kicks in when you start talking about fuel pressure..
I'm not sure what was being asked, but if you could ask it again, I'll try to answer..
the key discovery I made is that the red injectors are NOT 22#, they are 23.6, and @ 43.5psi, NOT 49psi.. which means they are delivering quite a bit more fuel than I previously thought.. I'd be scared to guess just how much more fuel though- because: if you were to put two injectors side by side that deliver the same amount of fuel @ a determined amount of pressure, if you jack with the pressure- all bets are off on how they are going to react.. one may start DUMPING fuel, and the other may maintain the same scale of delivery..
as far as ohms are concerned, it's my understanding THAT is one of the most crucial matches for interchanging injectors.. you want zero surprises between the PCM and those injectors.. you gotta figure, those things open and close at a silly high rate- the difference in a percentage of duty cycle is what, parts of milliseconds? any mis-understanding there, and you're going to have funky reactions you will spend a lot of time tracking down..
Last edited by drewactual; 02-09-2012 at 08:46 AM.
#24
I wonder if by changing the fuel pressure if you can get the larger injectors to run in a manageable range? and how could this be done easily? using a 94-95 pump or a regulator? or would that have negative effects on the type of fuel pump used in this system? I use a regulator to control the electric fuel pump I put in my kitcar as the pressure was overwhelming the carbs... seems to work fine.
I have to say I'm a bit nervous now after doing all this reading about the injectors running too rich.... at least I have the warranty to exchange them if they dont work out.
I have to say I'm a bit nervous now after doing all this reading about the injectors running too rich.... at least I have the warranty to exchange them if they dont work out.
Last edited by Augiedoggy; 02-09-2012 at 08:46 AM.
#25
I wonder if by changing the fuel pressure if you can get the larger injectors to run in a manageable range? and how could this be done easily? using a 94-95 pump or a regulator? or would that have negative effects on the type of fuel pump used in this system? I use a regulator to control the electric fuel pump I put in my kitcar as the pressure was overwhelming the carbs... seems to work fine.
I have to say I'm a bit nervous now after doing all this reading about the injectors running too rich.... at least I have the warranty to exchange them if they dont work out.
I have to say I'm a bit nervous now after doing all this reading about the injectors running too rich.... at least I have the warranty to exchange them if they dont work out.
I'd find the right injectors.. like i've said previously, if I had it to do all over again, i'd have went with OE injectors so there are absolutely no surprises.
#26
#27
oh well... you cant make any performance discoveries by playing it safe all the time
the guy at sol cal seemed pretty confident he had the right ones... I guess I'll just have to wait...
I pulled a couple of my old injectors and they look nasty around the fuel inlet... theres a dark brown ffilm on everything that wiped of onto a rag fairly easily...I was I could dissassemble the questionable one and check out the internal filter?
the guy at sol cal seemed pretty confident he had the right ones... I guess I'll just have to wait...
I pulled a couple of my old injectors and they look nasty around the fuel inlet... theres a dark brown ffilm on everything that wiped of onto a rag fairly easily...I was I could dissassemble the questionable one and check out the internal filter?
#28
and, by the way:
p/n XR3E ARE a direct replacement injector.. there is no funky tuning, no wiring or difference in electrical characteristics, notta.. the delivery is slightly higher- just a touch.. the difference can be compensated for at the PCM level with zero grief..
p/n XR3E ARE a direct replacement injector.. there is no funky tuning, no wiring or difference in electrical characteristics, notta.. the delivery is slightly higher- just a touch.. the difference can be compensated for at the PCM level with zero grief..
#30
it gently scooped a tiny screwdriver around in the inlet hole and black sludge was deposited at the tip... that is a good sign that the injector may have been my issue causing the mis under load.
Last edited by Augiedoggy; 02-09-2012 at 09:05 AM.