I quoted one article I got them from... the speedfreaks tips and tricks for the dodge magnums pdf in the DIY section...the same article that stated the slightly colder burning 3923 autolite plug has been shown to gain up to 4-5HP over stock plugs when both were tested new on a dyno with no other modifications...
but its no sercret higher thermostat temps are commonly used for emissions purposes which are the main concern over performance... there is tons of information on this....

 

The point there is, the tuner EXPECTS, or IS OPTIMIZED FOR the 180 stat. You are changing the computers programming. For the stock factory tune, a 180 stat does nothing for performance.

 

the point was the 180 stat was close enough to 195 that the computer would be in optimal operating range and still have the benefits of slightly cooler temps and less load on the cooling system..... I've read more than once here of people with pinging / detonation issues have been able to cure them by going to a 180 thermostat...

I had actually installed mine after one of the other moderators silver had suggested it and listed the benefits in a thread..(and my 195 failed and overheated my truck). .I'm having a hard time finding that thread now though.. I was always under the impression lower temps in the combustiuon chamber meant more dense air molecules and more power... isnt that how a CAI works?

http://www.performance4trucks.com/pa...cessories.aspx

as long as the pcm is happy with the temp cooler is better... mine operates in closed loop mode and completes all its tests fine so...

i would think if the pcm wasnt happy it would throw an error telling you so like some have gotten... look at the thermostat poll in the DIY section...I doubt the majority of 180 stat users are getting erros and ignoring them... I think certian years or certian flashes like deathflash may be more or less prone to notice the difference and make any negative adjustments for them.

 

Thing is though, installing a 180 stat to alleviate pinging is putting a bandaid on, and ignoring the real problem, whatever that may be.... (blown plenum, etc.)

The point that I am trying to make here is, JUST doing the 180 stat does NOTHING for performance.

 

BS. The 195º did NOT overheat your truck and a 180º is NOT a cure. It does nothing more than open sooner than a 195º. Any motor vehicle will run hot if the water pump impeller cannot effectively move the coolant; if there is a blockage in the cooling passage(s); if the radiator is undersized; or even if the coolant is flowing too fast.

 

the 195 failed and my truck overheated...thats all I said... dont get all excited...

these trucks are prone to pinging problems...its a design weakness and a 180 stat can help .just like the cooler burning 3923 plugs.or running higher octane gas like some do. just like so many believe replacing the stock plenum plate with an aluminum one can help...which it may but it also could just be a bandaid for the longer bolts too...

 

Here is an article that actually has dyno testing on replacing the stat. They picked up a little over 1 horsepower, and a 3-4 lbs/ft of torque. One thing you MUST note on this test though, is this was done on a GM 3800 engine, that has a knock sensor, that allows the engine to run on the ragged edge of spark knock, something that our motors do NOT have...... there was shown a marginal increase in volumetric efficiency..... but, given the difference in spark control between their test engine, and our dodge engines, you won't see the same gains, (or maybe not even any at all....) on our trucks.

Even if there ARE gains, it is going to be unnoticeable.

 

ok but a 80 stat doesnt cause spark knock in these engines I've never heard anyone complain of it.... and as far a even 1 hp and 3-4 lbs of gain for free when just choosing one state over another when replacing?

Even you argued the point that 4hp and 20lbs of gain was for $300 sct canned tune investment was less than others paid for less improvements...

I except the fact that a 180 stat isnt a solution for every truck but the fact remains that if the pcm doesnt have an issue with it and all other thing equal a 180 has better performance than a 195...and can help with detonation. some pcm's or temp sensors are off enough were is is a factor and the truck runs richer longer and has the same power benefit tradeoff as those stupid chips on ebay that just trick the computer into thinking the engine is cooler and richening the mix... bad for mpg I agree... when that happens. but there is a range were the pcm is happy not just 195. and some of us running the 180 are still in that range with no problems...

 

The real world gains on our trucks are going to be less than 1hp, and less than 4lbs/ft of torque. if you are changing the stat anyway, sure, why not, might just as well. Especially if you plan on doing a tuner soon. However, if your 195 stat is working just fine, then there is very little to be gained from changing it.

There is a LOT of difference between <4, and 20lb/ft. You can actually FEEL 20lb/ft, and it will be reflected in your quarter mile times. (if that is even a concern from someone driving a brick... erm.... truck....) On the newer trucks, that are more picky about engine temp, there is even more argument NOT to do it.

Sure, it is 'better' performance, but, you could probably accomplish the same gains by going to a better grade of fuel. Or dropping 20 lbs of stuff out of your truck. Better is not always "best".....

What I would REALLY like to see is, what the PCM is ACTUALLY doing with the lower engine temps........ does it see a lower temp, and alter fuel curves to try and warm it up to what it thinks it should be seeing???? Unfortunately, I don't (yet) have the capability to pick apart the programming.

 

you should be able to compare 02 sensor reading, fuel trim levels and the cc per minute and hour ratings of fuel flow with each and compare... If I have that ability with a $15 serial to obd wireless adapter and a free program on my phone surely the guys that actually paid $$ for scanner equipment have more options right?