hey.. i just just wondering whats better.. horsepower and effeciency wise.. the ramair box or a cold air intake?? would a ramair box even fit my 2001 1500 5.2? and how much are they?

 

Cold-Air intake. Ram-Air is a sales gimmick. I'm not going to get into the workings of it. But unless you run your truck at the track a lot, you won't benefit at all from it (the "Ram-Air" part)....though it's still better than a stock air-box. Just not as good as say a K&N FIPK.

 

[sm=funnypostabove.gif]
Sales gimmick? Most of the Subaru line has ramair including the WRX STi, also Firebird SS, Silverado SS and Viper are a few others.

I wonder what your basing your statements on?

Lets look at facts
Engines are air pumps, 360ci pulls about 30-214 cubic feet per second or 1800-12800cfm from idle to wot(5000rpm stock)
Small tubes restrict air flow regardless of if on intake or exhaust side, smaller they are the more force is required to pull or push air out, costing hp
Bending airflow reduces velocity by a set amount per degree of angle deflection, longer the distance the deflection takes the more reduced the effects are.
Bigger the airbox and larger volume it has the better the off the line performance will be
More air equals more hp
Cold air is better
Round air filters give the best performance per square inch of filter surface area and are preferable over a cone shaped filter (K&N filter facts on official site)

K&N genII fipk
Gets most of its air from outside the engine compartment though it isnt sealed from it
Single 3.5" diameter tube with smooth interior
Small very low volume tb hat
Inefficent cone filter
Tends to break tubes due to poor design of the fipk
gets a boost from the ramair effect at highway speeds just not too much
Is relatively easy install
Can yield about .5-1mpg increase some say
Approx $220-250 intial cost

To stop tube breakage on a genII you need to cut it in half with a section of rubber hose to connect the two 1/2s to eleminate the stress cracking. Why do they crack? Because when you hit the gas the motor moves on its mounts clockwise(cc if standing infront) by about 1-2". Solid mounting for the genII means it bottoms out in the cutout for the box the filters in, putting stress on the tbhat.

Ramairbox
Has large volume airbox
2 large 4" ducts (close to 3x the volume of genII)
Depending on ducts used may not be as smooth as genII fipk
More bends(depending on where you duct from) but gradual so they dont cost too much air speed/velocity
Is completely sealed from engine compartment air
At highway speeds gives about .5-.75 psi of positive pressure in the manifold (Auto Meter Pro Comp boost/vac gauge)
Is a bit of a pain in the @ss to install and seal
Can yield a 2+mpg increase or more at highway speeds
Price varies, depending on what you expect $300min I would expect.(cost me less than 200Cdn)

Largest ET reduction of the 45-50 performance mods I have done
#2 Ramair box (Procharger s/c #1)

Largest Et reduction for dollars spent per tenth of et reduction
#1 ramairbox hands down .5 et reduction compared to a genI filter dropping ets by .25, the same as a genII fipk does (gutted h/f cat #2)

The Burning Rom
I have run a genI, genII and ramairbox and track tested. Any gains you get at the dragstrip you see in every day use period. At 20mph the ramair effect starts to work, no other mod I have done except the blower has added as much to the performance from 60mph+. On a Dodge Ram it will help and pay for itself in time with the increased mileage, quicker if you highway commute.

FYI, you can not test a cold air or ramair setup on a dyno. Only place you can accurately test the results is on a dragstrip.

 

I'm basing my statements on the simple fact that ram air technology is a form of forced induction, like a supercharger or turbocharger. It's used on jet engines, ramjets, etc. The problem with ram air, is that to produce 1lb of boost, you have to be going OVER 90mph. That is a scientific fact.

Now the intakes you are talking about are NOT true ram air. The hood on the firebird...hoods on the subarus...not TRUE ram air. Once you get past 90mph, they can possibly net you 1lb of boost, IF the ducting isn't too restrictive. They do however get cooler air into the motor. That is a fact, and that is why they are effective...because they're pulling in cooler air. It's NOT because they are forcing (RAMMING) the air into the throttle body/carburator.

I belong to the Grand Prix owners club, where 75% of the people run their cars at the track. Greater gains are seen with a FWI setup or a CAI setup than with any of the "ram air" hoods or air boxes on the market. In fact, none of the cars running in the 10s or 11s have anything even resembling "ram air" for an intake method. The closest they get is removing the driver side headlight so the flow to the intake is less restricted.

Sooooo YES, ram air is a sales gimmick. The average Joe sees "Ram Air" and automatically things "Wow, this thing must haul...it has ram air...it has a huge scoop on the hood...how can this not be powerful...etc etc." And since I pointed out earlier in this post that ram air does not come into effect until 90mph, it does in fact make it a sales gimmick as the average person spends very little time at 90+ mph speeds (mostly because it's illegal in most states ). It would be more accurate if they called it "Cowl Induction" instead. At least that would be the truth.

I also do agree that any gains seen in the dragstip CAN be seen in everyday driving, but gains NEVER have the same impact. A mod that shaves .05 off your ET (which you would notice because you're timed at the strip) isn't going to be something that you're going to notice AT ALL in your everyday driving...unless you drive at extremely high speed...all the time...everywhere.

 

like indy said... an engine is an air pump... so under its own power sucking air into the engine,,, you ad a super easy way for it to go in like a ram or cowl induction.... wouldnt you eleviate some of that work that is on the engine? maybe im just outa my mind... im not mechanical engineer .. nor a rocket scientist (only on the weekends)

but if you give the engine a more ample supply of the air.. forsay the ram air.. where air is gettin pushed into the engine by driving forward... wouldnt it make the engine use less of its own HP and energy to try and suck the air in? i dunno... thats the way i see it in my head... but some say im kinda wierd... well a little more then some....

 

Not to take sides on this but you 2 are not on the same page.

indy is talking about airflow...CFM

rom is talking about boost...forced air

both are beneficial but in way different (as well as practical) ways. The term "ram air" is more of sales gimmick than anything, but, both indy's set-up and the K&N set-up are actually just just "ramming" more air into the motor. And just by actual air flow allowed by each there would be no doubt that indy's set-up would get more air in, thereby allowing the use of more fuel. And I think we all know, in principle, more air+more fuel=more HP.

Shoot me if I'm wrong but that is what I see.

 

We are indeed talking about 2 different things. My first post (and 2nd one for that matter) is about how "RAM AIR" is not a true intake form. It's not feasible on a car. Yes, "ram air" intakes flow well (in my opinion, and from experience, a good CAI or any FWI flows just as well), but they are NOT "ram air". Even the "ram air" hoods aren't "ram air". They're cowl induction. And like I said (and you repeated) the term "ram air" is a sales gimmick. The K&N setup, and the setup in the picture above both allow more air AND cooler air into the engine than the stock setup. But they're still not "RAMMING" it or forcing it in. All these intakes are doing is allowing the air to flow with LESS restriction. That's the point I'm trying to make. You have to have a lot of speed and a very unrestricted setup for the air to be forced (RAMMED) into the motor.

I'm not denying that they aren't good intakes...I'm not denying the fact that they flow...they're just NOT "RAM AIR" and it bothers me to see it referred to as that. [:@] People (the average joe again) think it's something great & awesome & exciting, but it's just glorified form of cold air induction that has a false name slapped on it so they can charge you more for it.

Another example of "ram air".....I have a "ram air" hood on my car. I bought it...it didn't come on the car. I bought it...for 2 reasons. 1 - I liked the look & quality of finish that the hood has & 2 - it has heat extracters...lowers engine temps & a cool motor is a happy motor. NEITHER of my reasons was because it was "ram air". Yes, it does have "ram air" capability, and I do have the hole drilled out for it. BUT, I use a FWI setup. All the hood does is allow fresh air into the engine bay. IF I wanted to use it for "ram air" capability, the incoming air would have to make THREE 90 degree turns to get to the throttle body. I assure you, there's no way it would be RAMMING any extra air in that way. In fact, it would be a greater restriction than my FWI which has 1 35 degree bend.

 

Thanks for clarifying your statements, but it seems you misread a few of the key points in my post.

The above Ramairbox dropped my ets by 1/2 second not 1/20th of a second. 1/2 second is very noticeable SOTP & double what you can expect from a genII
Ramairbox at highway speeds(70mph) produced .5-.75psi of boost in the intake manifold measured by a boost gauge. 70 is an average highway speed not excessive at all.
Positve pressure in the intake manifold means it is true ramair.

Ramair will not work on every vehicle, it depends on a few key points that will make or break the setup
Engine displacement
Engine rpms at cruising speeds (final gear ratio)
Ducting diameter
Bends in the ducting
Location where the air is ducted in is critical and probably has the biggest effect on if ramair will work or just be another cai

Agreed
Most ramair setups are not true ramair, they reduce restrictions so the engine does not have to pull the air in costing hp.
Ramair hoods for the most part are just for looks and do not add performance, depending on the design could hurt performance over other intake setups. Again, the location of the inlets on your ramair hood is critical, if you have seen windtunnel tests most vehicles will have a low pressure area a few inches behind the front of the hood as the air is deflected over the hood.

Your reference to the GP is totaly irrelevant, sorry but just a completely different animal. Very restricted space under the hood limits ducting size, locations of inlets, # of bends so much it would be useless. Your higher reving motor would probably require the close to the same cfm as a 5.9 would at the same speed(didnt do the math/guessing here) so there is no way you would be able to add ducts that are large enough.

Maybe Im wrong, but I doubt it, thanks for the good responses all

 

FYI
If any of you do go with the ramairbox its best to duct them from the bumper like I did below. I got the best results from this location when I was running it.
If you need any help installing feel free to PM or post questions. Glad to help if I can.
Heres my install page if you need something to reference too. Few key tips to stuffing the sucker in there

 

I don't want to step on anyones toes since I am new here and it is somewhat splitting hairs and mildly off topic but... If you are refering to the hood scoops on the wrx/sti/forrester 2.5xt/new legacy gt they are not air intakes for the engine they are actually cooling ducts for the top mounted intercooler.