brakes
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Professional
Joined: Oct 2005
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brakes
I was just wondering how often you guys do a brake job on your trucks. I redid mine less than a year ago and already they are starting to squeal. I have put around 10-12000 miles on them and they sound like they need to be done again. Is this a normal thing? Oh if it helps I have a 2001 ram with the 5.9 and 4wheel drive.
Record Breaker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,400
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From: Warren, NJ
RE: brakes
I was having to do mine about once a year (12K or so). I switched to ceramic linings this last time and it's been about 18 months. I think I'm about due again. I think it's a mix of my driving style and lack of rear stopping power in the trucks. I'm probably going to mod the rear brakes per The Burning Roms instructions and (with luck) extend my pad changes out to 24 months or more. I might even have to change a set of shoes for the FIRST time. [:@]
Record Breaker
Joined: May 2005
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From: Wisconsin
RE: brakes
Ceramic pads will reduce the maitenance interval for your pads, but increase it for your rotors 
That's why I stick with organic pads.
And it's definitely a good idea to do the cylinder swap...get some use out of those rear shoes [8D]
That's why I stick with organic pads.
And it's definitely a good idea to do the cylinder swap...get some use out of those rear shoes [8D]
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 277
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From:
RE: brakes
If they're squealing, and not worn out, the most likely cause is the bevel/chamfer on the leading and trailing edges are no longer there...any premium pad is chamfered, but only generally halfway down the thickness of the pad...when it's gone, the straight, sharp edge of the pad causes it to "grip" the rotor differently and shifts the pad, albeit slightly, causing the squeal.
A few months ago, I made a pretty big write-up on what to do to minimize noise with brake pads.
https://dodgeforum.com/fb.asp?m=434735
Opinions differ on wear and tear on the rotors from ceramic pads...I've not seen any evidence myself, probably because most rotors nowadays are pretty much "throw-away" and not meant to be machined/reused for more than 1 set of pads. Plus, the ceramic compuond and copper fibers in ceramic pads are softer than steel fibers in other pads, so the I never understood the logic behind it.
A few months ago, I made a pretty big write-up on what to do to minimize noise with brake pads.
https://dodgeforum.com/fb.asp?m=434735
Opinions differ on wear and tear on the rotors from ceramic pads...I've not seen any evidence myself, probably because most rotors nowadays are pretty much "throw-away" and not meant to be machined/reused for more than 1 set of pads. Plus, the ceramic compuond and copper fibers in ceramic pads are softer than steel fibers in other pads, so the I never understood the logic behind it.
Record Breaker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,415
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From: Wisconsin
RE: brakes
They maybe don't wear on the rotor as much as they cause warpage. Ceramic pads build up a lot more heat that convential organic pads. That's why they're not recommended for towing applications. That's why they also use copper (15%), as opposed to steel (40%)...to transfer the heat better. Problem is they transfer the heat into the rotor. If you use cheapie rotors, it's no big deal. But if you're running powerslots or drilled rotors, it starts to get expensive. There have also been some problems with high-end ceramic pads (Hawk Pads in most cases) being used with cheap ebay rotors. They work fine to start with, but after a while they develop a whine and/or a tapping sound.
This is also a good explanation of why ceramic pads aren't recommended for use on everything. It's from a website that deals in performance braking systems.
This is also a good explanation of why ceramic pads aren't recommended for use on everything. It's from a website that deals in performance braking systems.
Why don't you recommend Ceramic Brake Pads?
Let's start by saying that ceramic brake pads have a place in the automotive industry. They were designed to be a low-dust, noise-free brake pad. They came into popularity after the discontinued use of asbestos-based brake pads. At that time, semi-metallic pads exhibited problems with higher noise and dust levels.
That being said, I can tell you that Ceramic Brake Pads were NEVER designed to be a performance brake pad! Some companies have done a terrific job marketing their higher-priced, ceramic pads to the consumer as a performance pad. Ceramic brake pads typically have lower friction coefficients, and act as an insulator - raising rotor temperatures in cast-iron disc systems. When you have a vehicle that has persistent braking problems- the last thing you want to do is install components that have a LOWER friction coefficient and that RAISE effective operating temperatures! See our section on how this can cause ' Warped Rotors "
Premium-grade semi-metallic or hybrid pads are more effective for handling elevated temperatures and dissipating heat away from rotors. Most, if not all, semi-metallic pads have a degree of ceramic content ALREADY IN the brake pad.
Premium-grade, semi-metallic pads can offer LOW-DUST, NOISE-FREE Performance without sacrificing stopping power and increasing rotor temperatures!
Most organizations with fleet vehicles and other extreme-service applications already know what we're telling you: High-quality semi-metallic pads offer the best combination of stopping-power and extended-wear of any brake pad type on the marketplace today!
Let's start by saying that ceramic brake pads have a place in the automotive industry. They were designed to be a low-dust, noise-free brake pad. They came into popularity after the discontinued use of asbestos-based brake pads. At that time, semi-metallic pads exhibited problems with higher noise and dust levels.
That being said, I can tell you that Ceramic Brake Pads were NEVER designed to be a performance brake pad! Some companies have done a terrific job marketing their higher-priced, ceramic pads to the consumer as a performance pad. Ceramic brake pads typically have lower friction coefficients, and act as an insulator - raising rotor temperatures in cast-iron disc systems. When you have a vehicle that has persistent braking problems- the last thing you want to do is install components that have a LOWER friction coefficient and that RAISE effective operating temperatures! See our section on how this can cause ' Warped Rotors "
Premium-grade semi-metallic or hybrid pads are more effective for handling elevated temperatures and dissipating heat away from rotors. Most, if not all, semi-metallic pads have a degree of ceramic content ALREADY IN the brake pad.
Premium-grade, semi-metallic pads can offer LOW-DUST, NOISE-FREE Performance without sacrificing stopping power and increasing rotor temperatures!
Most organizations with fleet vehicles and other extreme-service applications already know what we're telling you: High-quality semi-metallic pads offer the best combination of stopping-power and extended-wear of any brake pad type on the marketplace today!
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Joined: May 2006
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From:
RE: brakes
If this is your first time changing rear shoes, be careful when removing your brakes and related springs. Since I don't do rears to often, I do one side at a time to make sure I reassemble the right way. To my surprise on my '97, the parking brake assembly is mounted differently on each side. One is on the forward side and one on the back side. Makes for some confusion if you aren't careful. A tip I do is: I have two trash can lids for the parts. One is placed forward of the brake for the front parts and one placed to the rear for the rear parts. I know its elementary but it helps if your not a regular at rear brakes. Otherwise fairly straight forward. If your in there, do as Rom said and try the brake cylinder upgrade. On my 2500, the result was amazing. I definitely feel, this will not only help in stopping distance but will also increase the life of the front pads. I put organic NAPA shoes on and resurfaced the drums. Except for some leaking brake cylinder fluid, my rear shoes with 75,000 miles were hardly used. I do admit, I was lax in regular adjusting of the rear shoes. If you haven't done or inspected your rear brakes in awhile, you may have a bit of a time removing your drums. PB and heat between the lugs worked for me. I tried many other methods including the spin and stab but only old smokey seemed to work. Don't know if the 1500's have the same problem. Good luck.
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Professional
Joined: Oct 2005
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RE: brakes
thanks for all the input. I did my rear when I did the front so I am pretty sure they are ok. All of the squeal is coming from the front so I think im gonna rip the tires off and check the pads in a day or two. Sounds like its just something im going to have to do every year or so.
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Record Breaker
Joined: Jan 2006
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From:
RE: brakes
i hate messing with the brake shoes.. taking everything apart its really a pain.. so in my opinion i'd want the front to do all the work.. hell of a lot easier to change those pads then the drums
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 277
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RE: brakes
ORIGINAL: The Burning Rom
They maybe don't wear on the rotor as much as they cause warpage. Ceramic pads build up a lot more heat that convential organic pads. That's why they're not recommended for towing applications. That's why they also use copper (15%), as opposed to steel (40%)...to transfer the heat better. Problem is they transfer the heat into the rotor. If you use cheapie rotors, it's no big deal. But if you're running powerslots or drilled rotors, it starts to get expensive. There have also been some problems with high-end ceramic pads (Hawk Pads in most cases) being used with cheap ebay rotors. They work fine to start with, but after a while they develop a whine and/or a tapping sound.
This is also a good explanation of why ceramic pads aren't recommended for use on everything. It's from a website that deals in performance braking systems.
They maybe don't wear on the rotor as much as they cause warpage. Ceramic pads build up a lot more heat that convential organic pads. That's why they're not recommended for towing applications. That's why they also use copper (15%), as opposed to steel (40%)...to transfer the heat better. Problem is they transfer the heat into the rotor. If you use cheapie rotors, it's no big deal. But if you're running powerslots or drilled rotors, it starts to get expensive. There have also been some problems with high-end ceramic pads (Hawk Pads in most cases) being used with cheap ebay rotors. They work fine to start with, but after a while they develop a whine and/or a tapping sound.
This is also a good explanation of why ceramic pads aren't recommended for use on everything. It's from a website that deals in performance braking systems.
Why don't you recommend Ceramic Brake Pads?
Let's start by saying that ceramic brake pads have a place in the automotive industry. They were designed to be a low-dust, noise-free brake pad. They came into popularity after the discontinued use of asbestos-based brake pads. At that time, semi-metallic pads exhibited problems with higher noise and dust levels.
That being said, I can tell you that Ceramic Brake Pads were NEVER designed to be a performance brake pad! Some companies have done a terrific job marketing their higher-priced, ceramic pads to the consumer as a performance pad. Ceramic brake pads typically have lower friction coefficients, and act as an insulator - raising rotor temperatures in cast-iron disc systems. When you have a vehicle that has persistent braking problems- the last thing you want to do is install components that have a LOWER friction coefficient and that RAISE effective operating temperatures! See our section on how this can cause ' Warped Rotors "
Premium-grade semi-metallic or hybrid pads are more effective for handling elevated temperatures and dissipating heat away from rotors. Most, if not all, semi-metallic pads have a degree of ceramic content ALREADY IN the brake pad.
Premium-grade, semi-metallic pads can offer LOW-DUST, NOISE-FREE Performance without sacrificing stopping power and increasing rotor temperatures!
Most organizations with fleet vehicles and other extreme-service applications already know what we're telling you: High-quality semi-metallic pads offer the best combination of stopping-power and extended-wear of any brake pad type on the marketplace today!
Let's start by saying that ceramic brake pads have a place in the automotive industry. They were designed to be a low-dust, noise-free brake pad. They came into popularity after the discontinued use of asbestos-based brake pads. At that time, semi-metallic pads exhibited problems with higher noise and dust levels.
That being said, I can tell you that Ceramic Brake Pads were NEVER designed to be a performance brake pad! Some companies have done a terrific job marketing their higher-priced, ceramic pads to the consumer as a performance pad. Ceramic brake pads typically have lower friction coefficients, and act as an insulator - raising rotor temperatures in cast-iron disc systems. When you have a vehicle that has persistent braking problems- the last thing you want to do is install components that have a LOWER friction coefficient and that RAISE effective operating temperatures! See our section on how this can cause ' Warped Rotors "
Premium-grade semi-metallic or hybrid pads are more effective for handling elevated temperatures and dissipating heat away from rotors. Most, if not all, semi-metallic pads have a degree of ceramic content ALREADY IN the brake pad.
Premium-grade, semi-metallic pads can offer LOW-DUST, NOISE-FREE Performance without sacrificing stopping power and increasing rotor temperatures!
Most organizations with fleet vehicles and other extreme-service applications already know what we're telling you: High-quality semi-metallic pads offer the best combination of stopping-power and extended-wear of any brake pad type on the marketplace today!