More fill ups and less power.

 

Not true. E85 has proven to provide more power than gasoline. Yes, you have to burn more of it to achieve more power. But for racing applications, it's a replacement for super expensive race gas. In Colorado you can get E85 for $1.99/gallon, or you can buy 116 octane race gas for $5+/gallon. Which one would you pick?

E85 is 105 octane and burns colder than gasoline. If you are able to take advantage of the added octane (forced induction), it will make more power than 105 octane gasoline. I personally know someone that runs 40psi on their daily driver DSM with E85. High 10 second time slips to back it up too...At 5280 feet above sea level nonetheless. http://www.rmdsm.org/forums/showthre...1&page=1&pp=10

I guarantee that when the summer hits and gas prices go back up to $3/gallon, E85 will still be $1.99.

Plus, you only use 30% more E85 when you are running WOT. Tests on non FFV platforms show a decrease in MPG of about 12 - 20% depending on how much you floor it.

I wish I could find the page, but there's a dyno graph of a Subaru Impreza RS back to back with and without E85. The only change is tuning for E85 and gasoline. The vehicle makes more power on E85. Saab makes a FFV that also generates more power on E85 than gasoline.

 

You can't guarantee anything. Google some oil baron in Oklahoma named Boone Pickens. He was telling everyone earlier this year that gas would hit $3/gal in the fall, and would be approaching $4/gal. Market forces prevailed and prices DROPPED.

Better stop right here. You're getting yourself deep. Oh, and quoting Wikepedia is no better than quoting the guy down the street.

 

Heeeeyyyy now....

Lets face it here folks. Nothing is perfect, and we all love burning gas. As for racing....it's just like everything else, they don't change the commuter cars just to handle space shuttle fuel. And Production vehicles don't need an MSD Digital 8 dual redundant ignition system with standalone fuel management.

E-85 is a reliable REAL alternative for every day vehicles and the bennifits clearly outweight the negatives.

No need to get your panties in a bunch.

p.s. I support the NRA too.....here come the hell storm

 

I have provided facts, articles etc. You have provided nothing except "You will ruin your truck".
I heard once upon a time, that the way you can tell when you've won a debate is when the opposite side resorts to personal attacks.

Once again, I am the one that tried something new. I have proven that it doesn't give a CEL, it doesn't cause drivability problems etc. As someone that has actually tried something and succeeded at it, I know that it works. You can keep repeating heresay all day long. Read the articles I posted. Read the DSM ownwers experience runnign 100% E85 at the track and every day. Read the link below too. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803341

Then you will have more ammo to try and prove to me that I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

When did not personally attack you? I stated what I know from growing up and what has been published.

You have proven nothing. You stated the following:
One tankful and you've proven that E85 will make your vehicle run better? I think not.



Since you asked for it, here are some examples:

http://www.e85fuel.com/information/vin.php Even vehicles designed for E-85 have issues:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...ord-usat_x.htm

Check out this forum where E85 is discussed:
http://www.mnscc.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28747

I can keep digging if you like. E85 is like the Hybrids -- lots of people are embracing it as a Godsend when all of the bugs haven't been worked out. I have read many owner complaints about Hybrids with bad software and mileage not as advertised. Plus, you have to own one for over 5 years and 100K miles before breaking even on the purchase price. Give them another 3 years, and a litany of problems with those things will arise.

Also, your comparison of E-85 and race fuel is like comparing apples to bowling *****. Go ahead and run your $5/gal race fuel in ANY vehicle and tell me how badly your engine was torn up. Run the fuel that an engine was designed for.

Personally, I think you're young and ambitious, but learn to listen to those of us who are more seasoned.

 

In the newest Consumer's Reports magazine there is an article titled:
"The Ethanol Myth"

In the article they did a pair of emissions tests on the same 'flex-fuel vehicle
(GM 5.3L Tahoe I think)
running regular gasoline and then E85.
The big change was the NOx pollution with E85 was only 1 gram per mile versus 9 grams per mile with gasoline. That shocked me a bit.

RM_Indy is right.....in this case the 30% dose of E85 leaned the mixture above 14.7 air/fuel and it was enough to pass.

Here the trick is to add enough E85 to overwhelm the short term (AFF) and long term (AAF) memory registers in the PCM computer's programming so that the mixture's lean-ness doesn't get compensated for, like The PCM computer does with 10% ethanol blends in gasoline.

On another forum (Moparts I think) a poster who said he was a DCX employee said that the 4.7V8 flex fuel Ram had a fluro-carbon (Teflon like) lining on the special fuel line from the tank to the fuel injector rail.

If someone were to run a lot of E85, at least the first step would be to get that part number for the fuel line that would not break down inside with a greater concentration of alcohol and swap it in to his Ram. Another option would be to have a custom fuel line made with a teflon lining, which is commonly used in racing.

 

Thanks Hank
I have read most of the articles posted about the subject as a member of gasbuddies.com. and as a headpressman for a major new publisher in the north. Your link to the WRX guy is funny. I read that with interest a while ago while researching fuel related info and it contradicts other published articles.

As an avid performance nut and due to the extensive modifications I have done and am doing to my Ram I can tell you
Stock fuel system based on 700' asl is good to about 304hp at the crank or about 22% above stock not the generous 30% you quote. I base that on prior dyno pulls and wideband o2 readings at the dyno, from my wideband/gauge and from my narrowband/laptop while data logging and software I use such as Dragstrip plus and Desktop Dyno.

The reason you can get away with 30% mix is you are at high altitude.
With low oxygen levels the mixture of fuel will be richer plus the hp is reduced so that give higher cushion rate with the fuel system as well.
Depending on modifications going WOT above say 4500rpms could have some negative effects even at altitude in the heat of the summer.

Always good to hear others perspectives on the subject and see what we can all learn

 

Sooooooo true. As part of a Hybrid develupment team (www.challengex.org) I can tell how many glitches there are in these things, especially in the electrical and programing, and I'm not even on the Controls team.

 

I never said it ran better. I said there was/is no difference in drivability with 30% E85 and 0% E85. I said I used E85 to pass emissions.

Just because your vehicle isn't listed as a FFV doesn't mean you can not make it able to run 100% E85. I have a turbo DSM that will be using 100% E85 as of this weekend. The only fuel modifications I've made are, 1600cc injectors, 255lph fuel pump & fuel management. Stock fuel lines, fuel rail etc. Since I know many people with multiple platforms with the same modifications that have had 0.00 problems running E85, I'm not worried.

Also, the article on a Ford Taurus was funny. I sure hope that a Dodge is better made than a POS Ford.

Stohic for 30% E85 is actually 12.85 (based on 10% ethanol already in gasoline). The stock ECU maintains similar fuel trims no matter if you're running methanol, ethanol or gasoline. It just doesn't care. It reads the oxygen content in the exhaust gas and adjusts fuel accordingly.

I realize that I'm upsetting convention here and am going against what the corporate lawyers for the car makers say too. (corporate lawyers are the ones that say things like, "Unless your vehicle is on the list, don't think about running anything but _____ gas.") Car makers don't like to get sued because people are stupid. Hello, hot coffee McDonalds lawsuit anyone? So they hire their engineers to overengineer the vehiclces so stupid people don't get hurt/killed. Then they get the lawyers to write up warnings that say, "If you even know someone that has run E85, you can't be their friend anymore because it will ruin your vehicle". People read that crap on the internet and take it as gospel...

Then I come along and say I know many, many people that run E85 on a daily basis without any problems on a non-FFV. Most of the information on the internet about the pitfalls of E85 are unfounded, and most people that talk about E85 have never actually run it/don't know anyone that has.

I simply found a cheap way to pass emissions.

Would I run 100% E85 on a Dodge Ram every day? Nope, I have my DSM as a fun vehicle and plan to leave the Ram stock. But if I were panning on modding the truck already, it's no more expensive to mod the fuel system of a vehicle to run on E85 than it is to run on gas.