I have read the threads about people using the 96Chevy/GMC 1-ton dually wheel cylinders on the Dodge 2500 + 3500 trucks.

Has anyone tried this with a 1500? I am thinking about doing it since I need to do my rear brakes. However, I found some threads where people were debating if the 1500 master cylinder would have the capacity to support the larger wheel cylinders.

If anyone has any experience with this good or bad I would like to know before trying it.

Thanks!

 

Installed mine about 6 months ago. MC capacity is more than adequate. You have to relearn how to brake your truck and it wears the shoes faster. Conversely ... the front pads and rotors last longer. Still considering an adjustable proportioning valve for the rears.

 

Can you elaborate on "relearning" how to brake the truck?

 

an old post:
----
Over the past 3 weeks I have been changing out the brakes on my 1995 model
year 1500 Ram ClubCab 2wd.

The original factory front pads and rear shoes were changed out on this truck
back at 61,000 miles. Chrysler instruction sheet K6855323AB says these
original brake parts were a "Delco 243EE" set, although the front pads had
markings that said:

DM 128FE 7259/0 2/1 on the outboard pad
DM 128FE 8154 7259-1 1/1 on the inboard pad
Delco243EE**Delco243EE on rear shoes

I changed these original brake parts to 'improved' Mopar Replacements that
were recommended by Dodge in 1998 to improve brake performance in 1994-BR/BE
1996 Ram Truck 1500 Series.

This was a $156 kit bought at the dealer, part number 05013447AA.
I wrote up a report to DiRT on this Thu Apr 08 07:27:13 1999.

The instruction sheet K6855323AB included with the kit says that the improved
brake parts are a "Delco 224 FF" set of front pads BXH3EEE9278127E matched
with special rear shoes that are indeed marked Delco224FF.

These brake parts lasted on my truck from 61,000 miles to 140,000 miles, at
which time the front pads still had 3/16 inch thickness, but the rear shoe
thickness had worn away enough that the rivets had scored the brake drum
surface. I have to admit both styles of Delco parts lasted for a very good
life.

Prior to taking off the Delco 224FF brake parts I did 5 full stops with the
truck from 60 mph on a level asphalt road in dry 60-70 degree weather. I
would accelerate up to 60 mph then hit the brake pedal when I felt the front
tires hit an expansion joint in the road. I measured from the expansion joint
to where the nose of the truck stopped with a tape measure.
Results were:

219 feet
223 feet
204 feet
228 feet
197 feet
Average = 214 feet

When I had Bridgestone Dueler HL 245 75 R16 tires on this truck the tire tread
had so much dry traction that I could not cause the tires to skid in a panic
stop from 60 mph no matter how hard or quickly I hit the pedal.

In the above 5 tests I found that with Michelin LTX MS 245 75 R16 tire tread
pattern and rubber the truck would skid easily.

I have the standard Rear Wheel Anti-Lock (RWAL) system built by Kelsey Hayes,
not the optional ABS system.

Much of the variation from the worst 223 feet to the best 197 foot stop I feel
was due to skidding causing me to release the pedal momentarily. Even so, I
developed a flat spot on one of the rear wheels and there is now a slight
vibration - or maybe the Bendix drums aren't balanced properly.

I put Bendix AF462 shoes ($32.99) on the rear
with new Bendix #140660 drums ($54)
{both the above drums had 2 disturbing big balance weights welded to them}
replaced star wheel adjusters on both sides:
1531/F73182S USA Brake Parts ($12)
1530/F73181S, "Made in USA"
{the two sides have different left/right threads}
and replaced the original 1500 series
15/16 inch dia wheel cylinders with
1 and 1/16 inch diameter wheel cylinders:
TruTorque W79767/Raybestos WC37290 ($11) "Made in Italy"
that are standard equipment on 3500 series Rams.

The larger wheel cylinders
with their 28% greater piston area
bolted right in with no modifications needed.

With just the rear shoes changed to Bendix,
and wheel cylinders changed out to the larger diameter,
I did 5 more 60-0 stops:

199 feet
208
220
195
210
Average = 206 feet

I then:
changed the front pads to Bendix MKD369FM ($54.39),
polished the 4 rusty caliper sliding surfaces with a abrasive rubber wheel on
a Dremel tool,
lubed these 4 surfaces with a coating of NeverSieze the thickness of a
cigarette paper,
lubed the caliper bolts and sleeves with 10 drops of "BreakFree",
flushed and bled the brake fluid using two large bottles of Valvoline SynPower
Dot 3/4 brake fluid,
-- and then did 6 more 60-0 stops:

176 feet
191
177
200
167
192
Average = 184 feet

On these 6 stops the brake pedal had a good 'progressive' feel that allowed me
to stop with less skidding, but I think the pedal is not as firm as it should
be if all the air bubbles were out of the lines. I intend to bleed the 4
brakes again.

{Why did Dodge put a different size brake bleeder fitting on the rear versus
the front? Why is the front bleeder a metric wrench size, and the rear one
English?}

It is possible that I am feeling more brake pedal movement because it takes
28% more brake fluid to move the larger rear cylinders the same distance.

The above numbers are not as precise as I would like,
but my best guess is that these changes improved the
rear brakes about 4%,
and the front brakes improved about another 6%.

I feel better knowing I can stop about 30 feet shorter now.

My best two stops from 60 mph were 167 ft and 176 feet.

The best sports cars stop in 110-120 feet from 60 mph - at least according to
magazine reviews.

I guess we should all leave an extra 60-70 feet between our trucks and a
sports car in front of us - because they can stop shorter than we can. I have
seen a lot of Rams on the road with front bumper damage indicating they could
not stop in time.

 

this is an amazing post

 

Prior to installing the 1-ton cylinders, I would have to step on the pedal pretty hard to get a good stop. After ... substantially less pressure on the pedal required ... pretty easy to lock the rears because there is so little weight back there. This mod really shines when one is carrying a load (much more weight over the rear wheels).

 

i'm needing rear brakes, so i'm coming in on this too.

but i'm confused. when i mash the brake pedal, the stock master cylinder sends fluid to the rear in stock volume at stock pressure, whatever that might be. the rear wheel cylinders expand and push that amount of pressure through the pads onto the shoes. so if i replace a smaller diameter wheel cylinder with a larger diameter cylinder, it seems to me that all i did was put a bigger bucket at the end of the line, which will take more volume (thus longer pedal push), in order to apply the same stock pressure. it would seem like we would need a higher pressure master cylinder, not a larger volume wheel cyl. educate me please, i don't understand how this improves stopping.

Bill, did you use stock shoes or the Delco ones in the post above ?

 

Not just a larger bucket at the other end ... bigger cylinder/piston combination. Yes ... you're moving more fluid but the larger piston surface converts it to a harder push on the shoes.

I just reused my old (original) brake shoes. Probably need new ones by now. 90k+ out of a pair of brake shoes ... slackers.

 

From what I had read people were specifying to buy the wheel cylinders for a dually not a single rear wheel truck. I noticed that the above post with all the info about the braking that person used a wheel cylinder with a 1 1/16" bore. The dually has a1 3/16" bore.

Does anyone feel it will make a big difference? I have the wheel cylinders from a dually which are 1 3/16" bore.

 

I ordered the dually cylinders (1 3/16" bore) from RockAuto. Fit just fine ... work even better. Super easy swap.