any word on lift kits
#11
re: adjustable coilover
Thanks for the pic Brandon. That coilover will affect ride height but it does it indirectly by preloading the spring. Just for everyone's reference, I've attached a picture of a coilover that adjusts ride height and pre-load separately.
[IMG]local://upfiles/81674/4055186A95424C4B9D636E1F78E0560A.jpg[/IMG]
You can see that the shock body gets screwed up or down inside the lower mount to adjust ride height. Then the lower spring perch will screw up or down the shock body to adjust spring pre-load.
[IMG]local://upfiles/81674/4055186A95424C4B9D636E1F78E0560A.jpg[/IMG]
You can see that the shock body gets screwed up or down inside the lower mount to adjust ride height. Then the lower spring perch will screw up or down the shock body to adjust spring pre-load.
#12
RE: re: adjustable coilover
I disagree with it preloading the springs 100%
This might be the case if the part of the coilover that extends was BELOW the adjustment but it is not. Maybe I am not seeing it right but by threading that adjuster you are simply lifting the vehicle, maybe slightly decreasing the amount of uptravel but I don't think the coilover is the limiting factor in our IFS trucks.
I don't really see what your pic does, unless the part that moves is below the adjuster, that way then yea, you are preloading the spring with the upper adjuster.
This might be the case if the part of the coilover that extends was BELOW the adjustment but it is not. Maybe I am not seeing it right but by threading that adjuster you are simply lifting the vehicle, maybe slightly decreasing the amount of uptravel but I don't think the coilover is the limiting factor in our IFS trucks.
I don't really see what your pic does, unless the part that moves is below the adjuster, that way then yea, you are preloading the spring with the upper adjuster.
#13
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RE: any word on lift kits
ORIGINAL: studlyblueiz
Well I don't know about too many adjustable struts...but coil spring sure...we don't have those though. Now I was trying to get my hands on an Ram 06+ front strut to test fit on my dakota but can't find a donor. It looks like it'll fit just don't know if there will be height gain or improvement in stiffness. If no gain in height but does fit then that makes Rancho's quick lift shock for Ram an awesome choice. I gave up asking tons of forums cause I can't seem to get any Ram participation. If anyone else has luck try it out or send it my way and I'll do it.
I've looked over skyjacker's older gen lift and it looks like most everything will work on our truck with the exception of the coils(obviously) and maybe the knuckle(not sure if it's the same part as ours). I'd love to combine pieces of that kit with Ram struts.
Well I don't know about too many adjustable struts...but coil spring sure...we don't have those though. Now I was trying to get my hands on an Ram 06+ front strut to test fit on my dakota but can't find a donor. It looks like it'll fit just don't know if there will be height gain or improvement in stiffness. If no gain in height but does fit then that makes Rancho's quick lift shock for Ram an awesome choice. I gave up asking tons of forums cause I can't seem to get any Ram participation. If anyone else has luck try it out or send it my way and I'll do it.
I've looked over skyjacker's older gen lift and it looks like most everything will work on our truck with the exception of the coils(obviously) and maybe the knuckle(not sure if it's the same part as ours). I'd love to combine pieces of that kit with Ram struts.
Here's a link to his thread: https://dodgeforum.com/m_1146103/tm.htm
#14
RE: re: adjustable coilover
ORIGINAL: BrandonMiller
I disagree with it preloading the springs 100%
This might be the case if the part of the coilover that extends was BELOW the adjustment but it is not. Maybe I am not seeing it right but by threading that adjuster you are simply lifting the vehicle, maybe slightly decreasing the amount of uptravel but I don't think the coilover is the limiting factor in our IFS trucks.
I don't really see what your pic does, unless the part that moves is below the adjuster, that way then yea, you are preloading the spring with the upper adjuster.
I disagree with it preloading the springs 100%
This might be the case if the part of the coilover that extends was BELOW the adjustment but it is not. Maybe I am not seeing it right but by threading that adjuster you are simply lifting the vehicle, maybe slightly decreasing the amount of uptravel but I don't think the coilover is the limiting factor in our IFS trucks.
I don't really see what your pic does, unless the part that moves is below the adjuster, that way then yea, you are preloading the spring with the upper adjuster.
With the coilover in my picture, the lower spring perch can also be adjusted for pre-load. Generally the best ride setting is just tight enough to take the slack out of the spring when you assemble the coilover. Of course, when you install it onto the truck it'll sag some (just like the stock suspension does) which is a good thing (it gives you both up and down dampening when riding down the road).
Now, to adjust ride height, the body of the shock can be adjusted up or down inside the lower mounting piece. Once the ride height is adjusted, it'ssecured by tightening the locking ring to the mount, just like you lock the perch in position.
I don't know what is the limiting factor on the front suspension. When I changed shocks, I removed the coilovers from the truck without using spring compressors but I disconnected the sway bar and stillhad to stick a long pipe in the hub and stand on it to get the coilovers off the truck. I bet it would really be apain if I had some of those 2-1/2" leveling spacers in there!
#15
RE: re: adjustable coilover
I still don't get how you are saying it is preloading it. Preloading would be having load without weight on the truck. The spring rate determines how far that spring will compress with a load on it. The amount the spring is compressed at rest is the same no matter what the adjustment of the coilover, therefore the ride is the same. Only difference is the total distance between the mounting points is changing IMHO. Not that it matters, the ride on our hoopty's is a way to soft so we could use it stiffer anyway - I bottom out on my commute on the highway!
#16
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RE: re: adjustable coilover
Brandon I think you'll find the TM kit will help with that some (just make sure you install it according to the new instructions on thier site), I noticed it made a difference for me. I actually want to take mine off and put the lowering shackles on but I refuse to even think about it till I can get better struts.
#17
RE: re: adjustable coilover
yea, I can't wait to put it on. I just need an excuse to get my wife out of the house for like an hour. I figure jack up one side and throw on spring compressers, lower and remove coilover, install spacer and reinstall then do other side. Guess I need to go read the directions though. Murphy says take how long you think it will take and multiply by 10.
#18
RE: re: adjustable coilover
ORIGINAL: BrandonMiller
I still don't get how you are saying it is preloading it. Preloading would be having load without weight on the truck. The spring rate determines how far that spring will compress with a load on it. The amount the spring is compressed at rest is the same no matter what the adjustment of the coilover, therefore the ride is the same. Only difference is the total distance between the mounting points is changing IMHO. Not that it matters, the ride on our hoopty's is a way to soft so we could use it stiffer anyway - I bottom out on my commute on the highway!
I still don't get how you are saying it is preloading it. Preloading would be having load without weight on the truck. The spring rate determines how far that spring will compress with a load on it. The amount the spring is compressed at rest is the same no matter what the adjustment of the coilover, therefore the ride is the same. Only difference is the total distance between the mounting points is changing IMHO. Not that it matters, the ride on our hoopty's is a way to soft so we could use it stiffer anyway - I bottom out on my commute on the highway!
Let's say thecoilover has 6" of travel and when you set the truck on the groundit compresses 3". That gives you 3" of compression and 3" of extension of the shock itself. The Dak has a motion ratio of about .6, so that would give you about 10" total wheel travel, with 5" up and 5" down to deal with bumps and dips in the road. Now, if you jack the truck up and adjust the lower spring perch so that it compresses the spring 1" something has to change. When you set the truck down the coilover will only compress 2" this time and the truck will set about 1.7" higher because you've pre-loaded the spring. Now the truck will have 6.7" of compressionand 3.3"of extensionat the wheel and will have a stiffer ride. Whether that's good or bad depends on whether the ride was already too soft, too stiff, too low or too high.
Now, let's talk about 3 points on the coilover; #1 is the top mount, #2 is the lower spring perch and #3 is the bottom mount. If you adjust the distance between #1 and #2, you will affect ride height and ride stiffness by pre-loading (pre-compressing) the spring and that's what happenswhen you adjust the lower spring perch. Now, if you can adjust the distance between #2 and #3 you can raise or lower the ride height of the truck without affecting the ride stiffness and that's what happens in my picture when you screw the shock body into or out of the lower mounting piece. Now, let's take the same example above but instead of adjusting the spring perch, let's screw the shock body out of the lower mount by 1". That makes the distance from #2 to #3 and the total length of the coilover 1" longer but doesn'taffect the spring. Now, when we set the truck down, thecoilover will still compress 3", it'll ride about 1.7" taller, ride stiffness will be un-changed and it'll still have 5" up and 5" down wheel travel to deal with bumps and dips in the road.
Now, if desired, you can adjust both the lower perch and the coilover length in combination to tune ride height and ride stiffness independantly. Just remember that when you adjust the spring preload it reduces the effective rebound dampening of the shock by increasing the force the spring exerts on the shock in extension. FYI, even on desert racing trucks with up to 30" of wheel travel, they typically set them up for about 1/2 compression and 1/2 extension.
#19
RE: re: adjustable coilover
how do you figure it will have a stiffer ride, you haven't change the spring rate? It still sits with the same amount of spring compression at rest but it is now taller.
By moving the bottom mounts you shock still has the same amount of up and down travel but once again that isn't the limiting factor, your IFS is.
I agree your changing the travel but I don't think the shock is the limiting factor. If we had a solid axle rig them things might be different. I see what your saying, ok it is preloaded but once you drop the weight of the truck back down on it then the spring rate is the same and you will never fully unload the thing because it is limited by the suspension (I am guessing). I guess what I am saying is that I seriously doubt it is going to matter on an IFS truck and if it it somehow does stiffen the ride all the better.
By moving the bottom mounts you shock still has the same amount of up and down travel but once again that isn't the limiting factor, your IFS is.
I agree your changing the travel but I don't think the shock is the limiting factor. If we had a solid axle rig them things might be different. I see what your saying, ok it is preloaded but once you drop the weight of the truck back down on it then the spring rate is the same and you will never fully unload the thing because it is limited by the suspension (I am guessing). I guess what I am saying is that I seriously doubt it is going to matter on an IFS truck and if it it somehow does stiffen the ride all the better.
#20
RE: re: adjustable coilover
ORIGINAL: BrandonMiller
how do you figure it will have a stiffer ride, you haven't change the spring rate? It still sits with the same amount of spring compression at rest but it is now taller.
By moving the bottom mounts you shock still has the same amount of up and down travel but once again that isn't the limiting factor, your IFS is.
I agree your changing the travel but I don't think the shock is the limiting factor. If we had a solid axle rig them things might be different. I see what your saying, ok it is preloaded but once you drop the weight of the truck back down on it then the spring rate is the same and you will never fully unload the thing because it is limited by the suspension (I am guessing). I guess what I am saying is that I seriously doubt it is going to matter on an IFS truck and if it it somehow does stiffen the ride all the better.
how do you figure it will have a stiffer ride, you haven't change the spring rate? It still sits with the same amount of spring compression at rest but it is now taller.
By moving the bottom mounts you shock still has the same amount of up and down travel but once again that isn't the limiting factor, your IFS is.
I agree your changing the travel but I don't think the shock is the limiting factor. If we had a solid axle rig them things might be different. I see what your saying, ok it is preloaded but once you drop the weight of the truck back down on it then the spring rate is the same and you will never fully unload the thing because it is limited by the suspension (I am guessing). I guess what I am saying is that I seriously doubt it is going to matter on an IFS truck and if it it somehow does stiffen the ride all the better.
With the double A-arm IFS on the Dak the extension travel is probably limited by the bushings. They're designed to twist rather than rotate and as a result work harder against the spring the farther they get from resting position. Otherwise they may be limited by the articulation of the ball joints. Compression travel is limited by the bump stops on the shocks but are also affected by the bushing twist. The only way to tell would be to jack the truck up, remove the wheel, remove the sway bar connection, remove the strut and loosen all the a-arm bolts so that the arms rotate freely and take measurements. Then put the strut back on without the spring and measure again. Let us know how it turns out It's all good! [sm=deal.gif]