Why the hell....
Record Breaker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,041
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From: Central NY
I might be feeding the troll. But oh well.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/14/f...plained-by-il/
Those look like high end Fox coilovers to me.
The Raptor has a ton of engineering and testing behind it. And a warranty.
Stock 35" tires (extra cost for a lifted truck)
Correct rims (stockers will not fit on a lifted truck)
4WD (lift kit you mentioned is 2WD only)
Perfectly fitted factory bodywork (Fiberglass fenders required for 35's and a lift)
Huge brakes.
6" wider track.
Wider Frame rails
Super Heavy Duty Axle
Soooooo let's buy a 2009 F-150 5.4L 4X4, probably about $26K? And we'll assume a similar lift exists for 4WD pickups, since that's what the Raptor is.
Lift kit $2200
Shocks $1200
"Labor" $400 (I'd double that at least...but OK)
Now we need new rims and tires, since out stock ones just became unfittable
Rims $1000
35" MTs $1000 (easily)
Now some fiberglass bodywork
Fenders $200 ea. (guesstimate)
Labor, Paint $600 (cheap body shop)
Alignment $75
Big Brake Kit $1000 (a Stoptech 15" rotor kit with 6 pistons is $2000)
Installation $200 (cheap labor)
Sooo...I'm at $34,175 an F150 with a front end lift (the rear is still stock leafs and springs, good luck getting 12" travel from that), and probably no warranty when the steering rack lets go.
I think a $38,995 Raptor is looking like a pretty good deal myself. It's designed to get romped on, test drives say it can do 90+ MPH off road with ease. I don't think a sub-40K bolt-on F150 could handle that at all.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/14/f...plained-by-il/
Those look like high end Fox coilovers to me.
The Raptor has a ton of engineering and testing behind it. And a warranty.
Stock 35" tires (extra cost for a lifted truck)
Correct rims (stockers will not fit on a lifted truck)
4WD (lift kit you mentioned is 2WD only)
Perfectly fitted factory bodywork (Fiberglass fenders required for 35's and a lift)
Huge brakes.
6" wider track.
Wider Frame rails
Super Heavy Duty Axle
Soooooo let's buy a 2009 F-150 5.4L 4X4, probably about $26K? And we'll assume a similar lift exists for 4WD pickups, since that's what the Raptor is.
Lift kit $2200
Shocks $1200
"Labor" $400 (I'd double that at least...but OK)
Now we need new rims and tires, since out stock ones just became unfittable
Rims $1000
35" MTs $1000 (easily)
Now some fiberglass bodywork
Fenders $200 ea. (guesstimate)
Labor, Paint $600 (cheap body shop)
Alignment $75
Big Brake Kit $1000 (a Stoptech 15" rotor kit with 6 pistons is $2000)
Installation $200 (cheap labor)
Sooo...I'm at $34,175 an F150 with a front end lift (the rear is still stock leafs and springs, good luck getting 12" travel from that), and probably no warranty when the steering rack lets go.
I think a $38,995 Raptor is looking like a pretty good deal myself. It's designed to get romped on, test drives say it can do 90+ MPH off road with ease. I don't think a sub-40K bolt-on F150 could handle that at all.
Last edited by cramerica; Oct 23, 2009 at 11:15 AM.
Record Breaker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 5
From: Las Vegas
those were fitted by the Special Vehicles Team for that probably. becuase i live in vegas and took the trip to stateline primm where off roading lives. and the raptor they had there had no special kind of coilovers in the front. just smoothbodies in the rear.
yea it would take a little more for a base model but seriously. compare the stock raptor control arms with ones that PROFESSIONAL baja teams build for their trucks. let me know which one looks like it would break first. for an extra 10k i would rather have a truck built that i know could put the raptor to shame.
another thing. compare the factory travel of a raptor and than see how much an "average" prerunner has.
Im not talking down a ford or the raptor because i kind of like it. and ford has always been up there in the performance world. but ive been around off road racing since i was a kid and i know and talk to professional drivers, pit crews, and owners of real baja teams. and they all say its way overpriced for what you get. camburg's mechanic has a chevy1500 with maybe 15k in it MAX. and he smashed a raptor at the primm flats when they were testing it.
Thats all i was getting at.
and the quality saying "built not bought"
P.S, the raptor with a 5.4 is 39k...the one people want is the 6.2 which is around 43K
yea it would take a little more for a base model but seriously. compare the stock raptor control arms with ones that PROFESSIONAL baja teams build for their trucks. let me know which one looks like it would break first. for an extra 10k i would rather have a truck built that i know could put the raptor to shame.
another thing. compare the factory travel of a raptor and than see how much an "average" prerunner has.
Im not talking down a ford or the raptor because i kind of like it. and ford has always been up there in the performance world. but ive been around off road racing since i was a kid and i know and talk to professional drivers, pit crews, and owners of real baja teams. and they all say its way overpriced for what you get. camburg's mechanic has a chevy1500 with maybe 15k in it MAX. and he smashed a raptor at the primm flats when they were testing it.
Thats all i was getting at.
and the quality saying "built not bought"
P.S, the raptor with a 5.4 is 39k...the one people want is the 6.2 which is around 43K
Last edited by projektdirtfab; Oct 24, 2009 at 03:37 AM.
Record Breaker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,048
Likes: 21
From: Mobile, AL
I understand where you're coming from, but that's like taking a new Challenger srt8 to the drag stip. Sure, someone there is going to smoke it, and brag how they only got 10k into their '84 Camaro. Hard to make comparisons like these.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well, I havent had a good day to stop and get pics yet... but the one on the lot has been there for a while, and it doesnt really look like it sits any different than the rest of the f-150s to me. Now, I havent got out and taken measurements, but it doesnt look like the one pictured to me... but sitting on a lot is probably a lot different than out and about.
Record Breaker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 5
From: Las Vegas
the guys Chevy im talking about is an 07 so its not terribly old. and since he hasn't done engine mods his power train warranty is still in effect.
your right Eric. the stance is very similar to the 4x4 f150 but its the "travel" of the suspension that makes it good. where as a 4x4 you can cycle the suspension up and down from ride height maybe 10"?? guess. whereas prerunners from ride height can move the tires up into the fender and drop all the way down totaling anywhere from 18-30~ inches of usable stroke. thats what i don't really like about the raptor. you cant cycle the suspension way up into the fender as would happen if you were to jump it. and without limiting straps the balljoints on the raptor suffer if you ever catch air and max out the suspension. alot of street legal prerunners have uniballs. which replace the balljoints and are pretty indestructible and have insane angles of motion.
another thing. when you were trying to compare a stock built f150 vs the raptor. you said 4x4. i know the raptor has 4x4 but look how many trophy trucks have 4x4....none. having 4 wheel drive limits the travel ALOT in the front. and for the stuff that the raptor was built to do. you dont need 4x4. just wide, tall tires, and momentum. Thats how the 4x2 racetrucks mob through 3' of silt. they lay into the throttle and let the wide stance of the tires take over.
your right Eric. the stance is very similar to the 4x4 f150 but its the "travel" of the suspension that makes it good. where as a 4x4 you can cycle the suspension up and down from ride height maybe 10"?? guess. whereas prerunners from ride height can move the tires up into the fender and drop all the way down totaling anywhere from 18-30~ inches of usable stroke. thats what i don't really like about the raptor. you cant cycle the suspension way up into the fender as would happen if you were to jump it. and without limiting straps the balljoints on the raptor suffer if you ever catch air and max out the suspension. alot of street legal prerunners have uniballs. which replace the balljoints and are pretty indestructible and have insane angles of motion.
another thing. when you were trying to compare a stock built f150 vs the raptor. you said 4x4. i know the raptor has 4x4 but look how many trophy trucks have 4x4....none. having 4 wheel drive limits the travel ALOT in the front. and for the stuff that the raptor was built to do. you dont need 4x4. just wide, tall tires, and momentum. Thats how the 4x2 racetrucks mob through 3' of silt. they lay into the throttle and let the wide stance of the tires take over.
Last edited by projektdirtfab; Oct 24, 2009 at 07:16 PM.
Record Breaker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,041
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From: Central NY
I'm not saying the Raptor is a factory-made prerunner. Not even close! I built SAE Mini Baja cars in college, and watching "Dust to Glory" before a race was a mandatory ritual. Awesome movie, by the way.
Our little 2WD car (locked rear end) could go almost anywhere...mud over the wheels, rocks, 40% grades, could pull a weighted sled until the tires dug holes, etc. Tough little bastard for having a 10HP Briggs & Stratton.
We used uniball / Heim joints exclusively on the suspension. The big ones were $50+ a pop, but if we ever broke more than one or two a year it was a suprise.
That car had about 10.5" of ground clearance thanks to 4 wheel independent suspension, and probably 18-20" of suspension travel. So 12" on the Raptor doesn't seem like a whole lot. But I guess what I'm saying is, for the sticker price, it would be pretty tough for an average guy to match what the Raptor offers out of the box. A seasoned builder, with connections, and skill, and experience? Probably could build a Raptor killer without breaking a sweat. But that's not really the target market I feel.
Just for kicks...check out www.vu.union.edu/~baja
Our little 2WD car (locked rear end) could go almost anywhere...mud over the wheels, rocks, 40% grades, could pull a weighted sled until the tires dug holes, etc. Tough little bastard for having a 10HP Briggs & Stratton.
We used uniball / Heim joints exclusively on the suspension. The big ones were $50+ a pop, but if we ever broke more than one or two a year it was a suprise.
That car had about 10.5" of ground clearance thanks to 4 wheel independent suspension, and probably 18-20" of suspension travel. So 12" on the Raptor doesn't seem like a whole lot. But I guess what I'm saying is, for the sticker price, it would be pretty tough for an average guy to match what the Raptor offers out of the box. A seasoned builder, with connections, and skill, and experience? Probably could build a Raptor killer without breaking a sweat. But that's not really the target market I feel.
Just for kicks...check out www.vu.union.edu/~baja
Record Breaker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 5
From: Las Vegas
correct. but the target market they were hoping for are the guys that have little 900$ rangers with about 20K in suspension. the target they got "in my opinion" are the guys with boats and the hunters who need YET ANOTHER 4x4 capable truck of doing things.
me personally, i dont think that truck is geared to the baja crowd.
me personally, i dont think that truck is geared to the baja crowd.
Captain
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 566
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Worth
I agree. i think it's geared for the 'want to be baja' without wrenching themselves crowd. If money isn't too much of an issue for you and you want it, i think it's a decent value for what you get. And the warranty would be nice too.