172 milles on vehicle and Drive train PCM failure 2011
#41
03-10-2012, 10:40 AM
There is always a risk buying a vehicle in the first model year and it's a catch 22. You want to have that brand, spanking new, re-vamped or just introduced vehicle but you're always afraid of "bugs".
I had one of the first Chevy Avalanches out of the factory and had hell with it for a good while and the same issues of waiting for parts. Luckily for me, only one issue made the truck undriveable and in that case I had it back the next day. But lots of little "gliches". Probably the two most irritating ones I had was that the bed cover was NOT water tight, even though I specifically asked when I test drove it and was assured it was. I was doing large computer networks at the time and intended to put many PCs and other sensitive electronics in the back. NOPE - the thing leaked like a sieve in the rain and after replacing the panels once, I was told it was my tough luck, that nowhere does GM state they are supposed to be water tight! When I told them I was assured by the salesman it was - they asked me to produce it in writing! Second issue was with all that plastic cladding. I didn't have that thing 30 days when the gray cladding started to bleach white from the sun! Again, dealer and GM claimed that the cladding was only warranted if it failed (ie. cracked from the sun for 3/36 - simple fading was not covered). I bet I went through a quart of Armor All and like products a month to no avail. At 90 days old, my truck looked like it spent years in the south Georgia sun! Of course GM fixed this issue when the '03s came out by changing to a black cladding that held up better in the sun and by also offering a model without the cladding.
I got smart though and waited till '04 to trade it on my current Hemi and let Dodge figure out the issues on the initial '03 Hemi trucks. Good thing too, as the '03s really suffer from weak valve springs (and a few other issues) that were fixed when the '04s rolled out.
It's also inevitable that electronic parts fail, especially when power is first put to them long enough to them to heat up for a bit. I worked 14 years in the high tech electronics industry and believer me the failure rate is 1000x times higher when a component is brand new. If the thing makes it the first month odds are it will last until it's taken out by another outside factor or it just plain gets old.
The only thing that's inexcusable here is Chrysler not having parts available to get you back on your way in a timely fashion...
I had one of the first Chevy Avalanches out of the factory and had hell with it for a good while and the same issues of waiting for parts. Luckily for me, only one issue made the truck undriveable and in that case I had it back the next day. But lots of little "gliches". Probably the two most irritating ones I had was that the bed cover was NOT water tight, even though I specifically asked when I test drove it and was assured it was. I was doing large computer networks at the time and intended to put many PCs and other sensitive electronics in the back. NOPE - the thing leaked like a sieve in the rain and after replacing the panels once, I was told it was my tough luck, that nowhere does GM state they are supposed to be water tight! When I told them I was assured by the salesman it was - they asked me to produce it in writing! Second issue was with all that plastic cladding. I didn't have that thing 30 days when the gray cladding started to bleach white from the sun! Again, dealer and GM claimed that the cladding was only warranted if it failed (ie. cracked from the sun for 3/36 - simple fading was not covered). I bet I went through a quart of Armor All and like products a month to no avail. At 90 days old, my truck looked like it spent years in the south Georgia sun! Of course GM fixed this issue when the '03s came out by changing to a black cladding that held up better in the sun and by also offering a model without the cladding.
I got smart though and waited till '04 to trade it on my current Hemi and let Dodge figure out the issues on the initial '03 Hemi trucks. Good thing too, as the '03s really suffer from weak valve springs (and a few other issues) that were fixed when the '04s rolled out.
It's also inevitable that electronic parts fail, especially when power is first put to them long enough to them to heat up for a bit. I worked 14 years in the high tech electronics industry and believer me the failure rate is 1000x times higher when a component is brand new. If the thing makes it the first month odds are it will last until it's taken out by another outside factor or it just plain gets old.
The only thing that's inexcusable here is Chrysler not having parts available to get you back on your way in a timely fashion...
Last edited by HammerZ71; 03-10-2012 at 10:48 AM.
#42
03-11-2012, 09:02 AM
There is always a risk buying a vehicle in the first model year and it's a catch 22. You want to have that brand, spanking new, re-vamped or just introduced vehicle but you're always afraid of "bugs".
I had one of the first Chevy Avalanches out of the factory and had hell with it for a good while and the same issues of waiting for parts. Luckily for me, only one issue made the truck undriveable and in that case I had it back the next day. But lots of little "gliches". Probably the two most irritating ones I had was that the bed cover was NOT water tight, even though I specifically asked when I test drove it and was assured it was. I was doing large computer networks at the time and intended to put many PCs and other sensitive electronics in the back. NOPE - the thing leaked like a sieve in the rain and after replacing the panels once, I was told it was my tough luck, that nowhere does GM state they are supposed to be water tight! When I told them I was assured by the salesman it was - they asked me to produce it in writing! Second issue was with all that plastic cladding. I didn't have that thing 30 days when the gray cladding started to bleach white from the sun! Again, dealer and GM claimed that the cladding was only warranted if it failed (ie. cracked from the sun for 3/36 - simple fading was not covered). I bet I went through a quart of Armor All and like products a month to no avail. At 90 days old, my truck looked like it spent years in the south Georgia sun! Of course GM fixed this issue when the '03s came out by changing to a black cladding that held up better in the sun and by also offering a model without the cladding.
I got smart though and waited till '04 to trade it on my current Hemi and let Dodge figure out the issues on the initial '03 Hemi trucks. Good thing too, as the '03s really suffer from weak valve springs (and a few other issues) that were fixed when the '04s rolled out.
It's also inevitable that electronic parts fail, especially when power is first put to them long enough to them to heat up for a bit. I worked 14 years in the high tech electronics industry and believer me the failure rate is 1000x times higher when a component is brand new. If the thing makes it the first month odds are it will last until it's taken out by another outside factor or it just plain gets old.
The only thing that's inexcusable here is Chrysler not having parts available to get you back on your way in a timely fashion...
I had one of the first Chevy Avalanches out of the factory and had hell with it for a good while and the same issues of waiting for parts. Luckily for me, only one issue made the truck undriveable and in that case I had it back the next day. But lots of little "gliches". Probably the two most irritating ones I had was that the bed cover was NOT water tight, even though I specifically asked when I test drove it and was assured it was. I was doing large computer networks at the time and intended to put many PCs and other sensitive electronics in the back. NOPE - the thing leaked like a sieve in the rain and after replacing the panels once, I was told it was my tough luck, that nowhere does GM state they are supposed to be water tight! When I told them I was assured by the salesman it was - they asked me to produce it in writing! Second issue was with all that plastic cladding. I didn't have that thing 30 days when the gray cladding started to bleach white from the sun! Again, dealer and GM claimed that the cladding was only warranted if it failed (ie. cracked from the sun for 3/36 - simple fading was not covered). I bet I went through a quart of Armor All and like products a month to no avail. At 90 days old, my truck looked like it spent years in the south Georgia sun! Of course GM fixed this issue when the '03s came out by changing to a black cladding that held up better in the sun and by also offering a model without the cladding.
I got smart though and waited till '04 to trade it on my current Hemi and let Dodge figure out the issues on the initial '03 Hemi trucks. Good thing too, as the '03s really suffer from weak valve springs (and a few other issues) that were fixed when the '04s rolled out.
It's also inevitable that electronic parts fail, especially when power is first put to them long enough to them to heat up for a bit. I worked 14 years in the high tech electronics industry and believer me the failure rate is 1000x times higher when a component is brand new. If the thing makes it the first month odds are it will last until it's taken out by another outside factor or it just plain gets old.
The only thing that's inexcusable here is Chrysler not having parts available to get you back on your way in a timely fashion...
Yes, electronics can fail when powered on, but I'm not with you on the rate. MTBF of even new (and more cheaply made) components has dropped to the floor in recent years. And replacing electronics is usually plug and play. As for valve springs, now that's a big job that you'd rather not have to go through.
As for your bed cover, the salesman sold you a bill of goods. There is no way any cover on a pickup is going to seal the way you need it for storing computer hardware in there. He basically told you what you wanted to hear to get the truck out the door. If your SUV leaks, then you have something to complain about.
I stand by the latest JD Power data that new cars are better than ever, with very few issues when they go out the door. And old cars, as someone mentioned, start to need additional maintenance and wear and tear items replaced. Yes it will always cost more to own a new car, but that hasn't detered people yet because they still like it, and there's value in that premium.
#43
03-11-2012, 06:22 PM
Record Breaker
Hammer, I have to take issue with some of this. First of all Armour All is the worst product for restoring cladding and is well known to fade in the sun. There are many other products that are almost like paint that work much better. I had an 85 Ford with the same issue and once I got the right stuff the issue was moot.
Yes, electronics can fail when powered on, but I'm not with you on the rate. MTBF of even new (and more cheaply made) components has dropped to the floor in recent years. And replacing electronics is usually plug and play. As for valve springs, now that's a big job that you'd rather not have to go through.
As for your bed cover, the salesman sold you a bill of goods. There is no way any cover on a pickup is going to seal the way you need it for storing computer hardware in there. He basically told you what you wanted to hear to get the truck out the door. If your SUV leaks, then you have something to complain about.
I stand by the latest JD Power data that new cars are better than ever, with very few issues when they go out the door. And old cars, as someone mentioned, start to need additional maintenance and wear and tear items replaced. Yes it will always cost more to own a new car, but that hasn't detered people yet because they still like it, and there's value in that premium.
Yes, electronics can fail when powered on, but I'm not with you on the rate. MTBF of even new (and more cheaply made) components has dropped to the floor in recent years. And replacing electronics is usually plug and play. As for valve springs, now that's a big job that you'd rather not have to go through.
As for your bed cover, the salesman sold you a bill of goods. There is no way any cover on a pickup is going to seal the way you need it for storing computer hardware in there. He basically told you what you wanted to hear to get the truck out the door. If your SUV leaks, then you have something to complain about.
I stand by the latest JD Power data that new cars are better than ever, with very few issues when they go out the door. And old cars, as someone mentioned, start to need additional maintenance and wear and tear items replaced. Yes it will always cost more to own a new car, but that hasn't detered people yet because they still like it, and there's value in that premium.
#44
03-12-2012, 08:18 AM
Of course they have few problems when they leave the door. Most of the sensitive electronic equipment (computers) hasn't been tested to the same extent as they get put through on the road. Either way, electric components fail thats all there is to it. Maybe a connection melted because up higher than expected engine bay temperatures, when this happens they find a fix and start replacing things. Next year they use the new and improved hardware to resolve the problems of the previous years. It is what it is and there isn't anything to sugar coat.
#45
03-12-2012, 11:21 AM
Record Breaker
I can't categorically disagree with what you've said. But cars have been using high-tech electronics components for the better part of 30 years now. It's not as if the manufacturers are still cutting their teeth on things that may or may not be able to withstand the environment (which includes, heat, cold, moisture, dirt, oil, etc.)
#46
03-12-2012, 08:47 PM
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Hammer, I have to take issue with some of this. First of all Armour All is the worst product for restoring cladding and is well known to fade in the sun. There are many other products that are almost like paint that work much better. I had an 85 Ford with the same issue and once I got the right stuff the issue was moot.
Yes, electronics can fail when powered on, but I'm not with you on the rate. MTBF of even new (and more cheaply made) components has dropped to the floor in recent years. And replacing electronics is usually plug and play. As for valve springs, now that's a big job that you'd rather not have to go through.
As for your bed cover, the salesman sold you a bill of goods. There is no way any cover on a pickup is going to seal the way you need it for storing computer hardware in there. He basically told you what you wanted to hear to get the truck out the door. If your SUV leaks, then you have something to complain about.
I stand by the latest JD Power data that new cars are better than ever, with very few issues when they go out the door. And old cars, as someone mentioned, start to need additional maintenance and wear and tear items replaced. Yes it will always cost more to own a new car, but that hasn't detered people yet because they still like it, and there's value in that premium.
Yes, electronics can fail when powered on, but I'm not with you on the rate. MTBF of even new (and more cheaply made) components has dropped to the floor in recent years. And replacing electronics is usually plug and play. As for valve springs, now that's a big job that you'd rather not have to go through.
As for your bed cover, the salesman sold you a bill of goods. There is no way any cover on a pickup is going to seal the way you need it for storing computer hardware in there. He basically told you what you wanted to hear to get the truck out the door. If your SUV leaks, then you have something to complain about.
I stand by the latest JD Power data that new cars are better than ever, with very few issues when they go out the door. And old cars, as someone mentioned, start to need additional maintenance and wear and tear items replaced. Yes it will always cost more to own a new car, but that hasn't detered people yet because they still like it, and there's value in that premium.
chevy used to conveniently claim that avalanche three piece bed covers kept anything in the bed safe and dry but did an about face on the dry part when people complained of them leaking.
nine years as a mechanic at dodge and now ford and trust me there are a lot of electronic parts that fail the first time they get good and hot. a lot more now with tipm and pcms than when i first started working on vehicles for a living. but your right about one thing they are an easy replace because there is no fixing when it comes to pcms, tipm modules or canbus.
#47
03-13-2012, 06:09 PM
#48
03-13-2012, 08:06 PM
Second issue was with all that plastic cladding. I didn't have that thing 30 days when the gray cladding started to bleach white from the sun! Again, dealer and GM claimed that the cladding was only warranted if it failed (ie. cracked from the sun for 3/36 - simple fading was not covered). I bet I went through a quart of Armor All and like products a month to no avail. At 90 days old, my truck looked like it spent years in the south Georgia sun! Of course GM fixed this issue when the '03s came out by changing to a black cladding that held up better in the sun and by also offering a model without the cladding.
Hammer, I have to take issue with some of this. First of all Armour All is the worst product for restoring cladding and is well known to fade in the sun. There are many other products that are almost like paint that work much better. I had an 85 Ford with the same issue and once I got the right stuff the issue was moot.
If you haven't already, try this stuff: http://www.amazon.com/Forever-Black-...gy_auto_text_b It is essentially an indelible die, so be careful with how you use it.
#49
03-14-2012, 08:06 AM
Hammer said it best: "...Of course GM fixed this issue when the '03s came out by changing to a black cladding that held up better in the sun ..." I think you'd be hard pressed to find a new vehicle that uses that grade of material anymore, and even if they did it wouldn't fade day one.