And you REALLY think that the engineers get final say of what goes into the manufacture of a vehicle? I've sat in on open discussions with engineers and trust me, very little of what they want to do/see in a vehicle makes it to final production. Bean counters are who decides what goes into a vehicle - ask any motor vehicle company engineer...

 

Yes, but if the reason you like not having to buy another filter is because you think you actually are saving money, the truth is you are not. In fact, i found a website that carries Ram paper filters for less then $10.00 each. And if it's not cost, but the "hassle" of going out and buying another Paper filter, realize that it will always be much less effort then cleaning and re-oiling a K&N filter properly.

I have (no joke) SEVEN auto parts stores within 10 minutes of me, PLUS a Walmart. I have no reason from a cost standpoint or a conveniance standpoint to buy anything from K&N.

 

No, i don't think that at all. But i do know that in this day and age, MPG and HP are the two biggest numbers car buyers look at. The higher those two numbers are, the better a car will sell.

Mounting an air cleaner on the throttle body itself would clearly cost less money to manufacture and install then running a tube from the throttle body over to the side of the engine compartment and having a filter in a seperate airbox plus all the assorted hardware and brackets. So that is a prime example of how added cost is justified when it means higher MPG and HP. Why are they going to that effort and expense if an air filter sucking hot engine compartment air from right on top of the engine gave better MPG and performance?.

 

First off, to adress the statement that at 60mph the math changes as far as engine compartment tempatures.

I agree with that, 100%. A huge amount of airflow into the engine compartment will drop underhood tempatures. But travelling at 60mph all the time is completley unrealistic. What about stop and go traffic, city driving and driving in small towns? I work in a town that is almost 8 square miles and the fastest speed in town is 30mph.

Even in the Dyno cell, they use two massive fans to blow outside air through the radiator and engine compartment. It's not as effective as actually driving down the road at 60, but it's much more effective then actually sitting in traffic or driving around town at 10-15mph.

You are talking about how effective the setup is at highway speeds, but unless you only drive your truck at the track, that is a completley unrealistic way to justify your setup. Unless i am driving to one of my jobs which are both two highways away from me, 99% of my daily errands trips and driving around town might see 40mph tops.

I am no expert on EFI mapping so i cannot comment on how your truck will handle what you are planning. It could certainly do tuned to work well in that application through programming, but how you would do that and with what paramaters i cannot tell you. Ram air systems do work, that is documented and drawing in cold air from outside the engine compartment will certainly help performance. But when Dodge built your truck, they were not thinking about you adding Ram Air.

My truck does not have a MAS, it uses a Speed Density based system. Not sure about yours.

Technically speaking, a MAS is designed to measure the volume of air being used by the engine, not the temperature of the air. If that were the case, imagine the MPG fluctuations you would see between summer and winter? An MAS does have a seperate device in it that measures air tempature of the incoming air. It uses the air tempature combined with how much air to decide how much fuel to use. Not just temperature alone.

Cold air is more dense which means you can pack more of it into a cylinder which means more complete combustion. You will often see an MPG increase with colder air then you would with warm air. Because again, the MAS is measuring how much air your engine gets AND the temperature of that air. If you take the same quantity of air but at tempatures that differ by 50 degrees, you are not using more fuel, but you are getting more complete combustion and in turn, more power since the fuel/air charge is now more effecient.

Good luck in your experiments. Nothing wrong with trying new things.

 

That's why paper filters are still available. We don't all live in the city or suburbs where we just have to find the right one of the 7 stores within 10 miles that has what we need. I have 2 auto parts stores and a Walmart. And it's not that great a Walmart either. 90% of the time I need something more than oil changing supplies, there is at least one part I need that is out of stock. Happened again today. Went to both stores and neither had radiator hoses to fit my truck. Both said - "but we can order them for you". Hell, I may as well order them myself. If I have to wait for them, that's 2 round trips to the store I'll save and will probably get cheaper online anyway. It may cost me a few dollars more to keep my K&N, but I already bought it. So, at least for an air filter, I don't have to go to 3 stores only to find nothing is in stock and wait for them to order it for me.

The mom and pop retailers around here are always griping about how the online retailers and walmarts of the world are killing them slowly. They need to realize that brick and mortar shops are a matter of convenience for consumers and many of us are willing to pay a few bucks more to get what we want, when we want it. But in the last 10 years, I've owned a couple of Jeeps, a couple of Toyotas, a Mazda, and 2 RAMS. And I almost never seem to find what I need/want in stock. It may only be one part of what I need that they don't have but it may as well be everything in some cases. Last time I changed the plugs in my truck, they had 11 in stock and had to order the other 5 for me. I might as well have just ordered the whole 16 myself.

 

I have owned my Daytona Shelby for 18 years now and have had a cone filter on it for that time. I am quite sure I have not spent $180.00 (your $10 figure times annual replacement of 18 years) in maintaining my K&N. The longer you have a vehicle the more it pays for itself, so if you are one that trades it in every couple years maybe it would not be worth it for you. From a performance standpoint, I can't feel a difference. I can say that this filter has held up to me running 28 LBS of boost for the last 10 years, I have seen a lot of paper filters get sucked in. I am right there with you on the engine bay hot air, that's why I routed mine the way I did.

 

as some have said the intake alone does not much but when you put on mods that need the air they help those mods. my pop and i dominated the local track rounds when i was a teenager and all our build ups had a cai. go to nascar and look at those cars they all have a cai and take the air usually threw two huge rectangle intakes right at the scoop under the cars. if a cai didn't help performance you can bet your *** the nascar guys wouldnt tune them.
one of our sponsors was aem and we ran there intakes on all our buildups and never had an issue with an engine we could blame on the intake or even dirty oil for that matter. look at the agressive cam makers they all say to use headers and cai with them.

 

Thanks NV290 for your replies I will let you know how my results come out.
MIKE

 

I know i love my cone filter.

 

Ok, Looking for some advice on this topic. I have a K and N CAI, and a flowmaster exhaust. My concern is what has been said in this thread about excess air causing a push for more fuel, resulting in poor fuel economy. Is my computer adjusting or over compensating? Do I need some sort of adjustment done to the computer or possibly a tuner of some kind. I know my fuel economy is never going to be great, but i am afraid it may be worse than if I had just left it all stock.