Fitpays is right with the cheap way out, an amp and sub will work well. I am with him with on the let the experts do it if your not in familiar waters. I did my entire setup by myself, but I did installs as a younge pup. I have just over the thousand in parts (shop online for the best price and take them to your local shop, they usually will take your business). Its all Infinity and sounds good. If you want to go cheap but upgrade, go with Pioneer. The 2way 6x9s and 2way 6.5s work well and a small 25Wx4 amp to match them works well in the Dodge. I did an install for just over 300 and the thing works like a champ, but the old man does not like THUMP-THUMP but cranks out his jazz. The end result is figure what you want to spend and ask lots of questions.

 

After listening to all your suggestions and talking to a couple local shops, ive narrowed it down. Guy at circuit city says 4 new interior speakers are a must, and claimed that if I get a small amp to power the speakers, it would make up for the poor power of the stock head unit. Wheras the guy at best buy said to skip the amp and go with a new head unit because even if I get a small amp to power the interiors, I still wont get good clarity because of the stock head unit. Based on what you guys are saying, im guessing the best buy guy is right. Im pretty sure im going alpine all the way around because I heard them at circuit city and boy did they sound good. Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks
Andy

 

Hi all,

There's some good info in this post, and also some bad... I design both speakers and audio electronics. I even contour speaker responses for flat, in-cabin (car) responses in my high-end installs. But, to get a much improved system (over stock), doesn't take a whole lot of money (relative term... ), believe it or not.

As mentioned, the stock speakers are definetly inferior, and poorly designed. They have low resonance frequencies, and thus can provide fairly low frequencies for their size. This is bad for the average Joe... because the speakers can move at these low frequencies... and reproduce them to a certain degree, average users turn it up - both the volume AND the bass. Several studies have shown that the average person tends to favor a system with more bass (thinks it sounds better) in blind testing... with no other variables. The problem with the last several years of Infinity designed speaker systems (they do all the systems for DM, even the "cheap" ones) is that they've tried to accomodate being able to reproduce more low end (play lower frequencies) and maintain high sensitivity to keep deck power requirements to a minimum. These two factors in speaker design basically create a very loose suspension and low power inputs quickly put the speaker into over-excursion. This distorts and makes things sound nasty. Overexcursion IS the problem that most people are experiencing...

The stock decks provide ample power to be able to purchase a set of after-market speakers and get MUCH better performance out of the stock deck. While the stock decks have their share of limitations in the sound quality department, one can expect (and will get) better performance, assuming he/she chooses a better suited set of speakers. Things to look for: what sounds good to YOU. The BEST thing you can do, is go to as many stores as possible, and demo as many speakers as possible. Have the stores run them off deck amplifiers (if their setups enable them to switch this). This will help in several ways. It enables to you hear the speakers through a low-end amplifier... a deck amplifier. Also, please consider that many aftermarket built-in deck amplifiers are indeed up to several steps better in quality than the stock power through the stock deck. Some speakers require a lot of power to sound good... this also means that they sound "off" at low volumes, because there's not enough power running through them to get them moving... yes, literally. I strongly recommend staying away from super-high-powered aftermarket speakers if you're going to be using the stock deck. Mid and low power speakers will be your best bet... keep in mind sensitivity also. This is how loud (decibels) a speaker plays for a given amount of power (typically rated at 1watt). Now, a higher sensitivity rating isn't necessarily good... many manufacturers use the IEC standard for measuring sensitivity - this doesn't provide a good, actual value - but it is a standardized technique. Like I said, pick something that sounds good to YOU. Bring in your CD's... play them at loud volumes... play them at quiet volumes. Bring a variety of music: male vocals, female vocals, heavy metal, techno, R&B... spread it out, play it all. No speaker is going to give you everything you want, especially when you're on a budget. Don't expect perfection. Just get the best thing you can afford that fits the purpose.

The next option, would be to run the stock deck and speakers, accompanied by a sub. The simplest way to do this was already described: just use a line-level converter to send to a sub amp, that will then power your sub(s). If you like bass, this is a good option. But you may want to consider disconnecting the rear speakers from the stock deck (cut wires, and tape them up) and just have the rear signals sent to the subs. This will give you more variability if you constantly like to tune things for different styles of music/talk radio. By simply adjusting the fader, you can fade the sub in more or completely out if so desired. This also allows you to crank up the bass control on the deck without blowing the rear stock speakers. Or the other option here would be to just turn up the bass EQ on your amp. However, this is harder to get at and adjust constantly. If going this general route, I would strongly recommend "bass blockers" for your main speakers. No, don't buy the trade name - go to Parts Express (or similar) and just order some crossover capacitors. Parts Express has some basic tables and calculators for users to help figure out the right value of capacitors. I'd recommend picking a value that centers around 150-200Hz. With just a single pole filter (a capacitor in series with the speaker) there's not a lot of protection, and thus a higher crossover point should be used. Crossover design gets very complex, so I'll stop at that.

The next option (which most of my customers opt for) is to use the stock deck, and run it into speaker level inputs of one or two amplifiers that power all speakers. Taking the high power demands off the stock deck greatly improves sound quality out of the deck. Essentially, the deck is only powering the input impedance of the amplifier, which is typically on the order of 22k-47k ohms, as opposed to 2-4ohms in car speakers. Bass resolution, punch, high end clarity, and general sound quality improves greatly with this techniqe. At this level, an entry level amp is all that is necessary: Kenwoods and Pioneers have good quality for the money invested (IMO). I'm not advocating that these are the best amps in the world, but for this type of setup, they are all that is necessary. Depending on whether or not you feel having rear speakers is necessary, get a 2 or 4 channel amp for your main speakers, ~25-50 Watts(rms) per channel is PLENTY. Run these on the high-pass filters that is built into external amps. Then get a descent sub amp (say a 150Watt Kicker) and a descent sub (I don't like mainstream subs, I have several other suppliers I get custom designed subs from). Generally, I recommend saving money by using only two main speakers (fronts) and the sub channel off the rears. This is how you listen normally at home... and if done properly in a car, can provide plenty of volume and great sound. Save the money and get better front speakers. This time though, when picking out aftermarket main speakers, be more critical of the mids and highs, since your sub will be doing all the low-end duty.

The next step would be to get an aftermarket deck and run line-levels to the amps...

The next step would be to upgrade to better speakers, better amps all around...

The next step would be to upgrade EVERYTHING

The best commercial offerings would be to get component speakers for the mains... I like MB Quarts, Focals, Diamond Audio, Morels, Seas... not in that order of preferance, but of price really actually. For coaxial type, the possibilities are so great nowadays, its not even worth recommending... there are so many different types of sound, the only thing you can do is go and listen.

My favorite amps are Diamond - I've been astonished by the clarity, power, and most importantly, musicality of these amps. They are leaps and bounds above Eclipse, JL, JBL, Pioneer Premier, etc, etc... IMO, of course. I now lean towards Kicker for low-mid power sub applications for lower budget operations. Great power reserves and punch. I'd steer clear of Rockford nowadays...

My favorite decks would be Eclipse for the high end, hands down. I also like Alpine, but feel Eclipse offers MUCH better performance - and typically are actually the same, if not less money. Pioneers I feel offer good sound and good internal amplifiers, and good DSP functions (the FIE function is great for splitting the lows to rears and highs to fronts all internally crossed over digitally) - this will save you money by not having to buy capacitors for your mains. Clarion and Kenwood also provide descent sound quality and lots of features - individual preference will likely win out here.

I hope this information helps. I don't want to come off as pompous, but I am fairly seasoned in audio - if any of you have questions you'd like to ask, feel free to PM or email me. I'm willing to help out While I have VERY high standards, I know what its like to have a budget... and other priorities for monetary investments (girls, exhaust, beer... whatever... ). This is why I get so many people to come to ask me for help with their systems. I have come up with the above listed steps/options for upgrades, depending on how far and how much money a person wants to invest. More often than not, I end up doing tons of low-end jobs rather than high-end. Why? Because we all have different priorities. Just figure out a budget and your options... and good luck!!

Regards,
Scott

 

Thanks, this is some great information!

I'm pricing components for your third option, using the stock head unit with a 4 channel amp, 4 upgraded speakers thru high pass filter, and a separate sub.