I would agree that the SCT tuner seems to be able to flash an OBD-II PCM to nearly a completely different program, including part throttle, but it is limited by what the stock parts like narrow range O2 sensors can 'truthfully' tell it.

Whether the EPA will come down on this is anyone's guess
but would be more likely to happen if a President from a different party is elected next year. The EPA claims to have about 300 in-house lawyers on staff, but they are already in many lawsuits and claim to be overwhelmed with work..

Replacements like the MegaSquirt, Motec, Haltech, Electromotive and FAST can do nearly EVERYTHING different, including using wide range oxygen sensors and MAF sensors.

A Chrysler employee who claims to work in their dyno testing center did a short write up on another forum of how the SuperChips revised the OBD-II programming on a 5.7 Hemi about 2 years ago.

He reported that the reprogrammer just 'did away with' the memory table that pulls back ignition timing with increased intake air temperature....a very questionable thing if you are worried about destroying one cylinder due to detonation...plus the Superchips put in a mild leaning of the wide open throttle air to fuel ratio.

Those two SuperChips changes yielded a little over 20 shaft horsepower on 93 octane fuel..which as a (20/330) gain of 6% seems believeble.

It would be relatively easy to do a 'two-truck MPG test'
similar to a SAE/TMC set of rules
but to my knowledge no one has done one....which usually means
that SuperChips and HyperTech have already done a SAE type test and found no MPG gain and kept that information to themselves.

If SuperChips or HyperTech could advertise that their programming actually improves both HP and fuel economy WITHOUT increasing pollution that would be a really big deal...something Jim McFarland would want to brag about to fellow engineers.

Instead, both companies resort to the 'Weasel Words'
that indicates a false claim
"Customer Report That ????? happened with our Tuner"

You can say anything using that 'Customer's Report that'
lead-in.

For example, you can advertise that:

"Customers report that little green men beamed their truck up into a flying saucer and shouted for joy when they saw the tuner on the dashboard."

 

So, lets discuss how the 2008 4.7 models gain almost 30% more horsepower over the 2007 model, shall we? It ain't all hard parts, and to hear you tell it, the older 4.7s leave nothing on the table.

 

hank what are you some kind of hippie or somethin "If SuperChips or HyperTech could advertise that their programming actually improves both HP and fuel economy WITHOUT increasing pollution that would be a really big deal...something Jim McFarland would want to brag about to fellow engineers." im not to worried about emissions im prolly doin something to get rid of my cat anyway global warming is a bs thing buddy.

why are you on this forum if you dont wanna hear others opinions " Instead, both companies resort to the 'Weasel Words'
that indicates a false claim
"Customer Report That ????? happened with our Tuner" "

yea guys on this forum have said they had some increased performance and got better gas mileage and hey once there are quite a few guys given me the same info im good with that and will buy it

y dont you just trade in your dodge on a nice hybrid or something that you can leave completely stock and never touch a thing on it because it will cause all evil! gosh!!!!

 

The EPA has no business regulating tuners. They leave the OBD and pollution controls intact, meaning the EPA has no futher stake in what the product does. If gas mileage is negatively affected, that's just tough. Welcome to freedom of choice. Fuel economy regulations apply to manufacturers, not consumers.

I think Hank may have a skewed view of how the "tune" in the tuners works. The values loaded onto the vehicle's ECU were indeed determined using wideband o2's and other diagnostic equipment. They use several vehicles to get an average and then make that the "canned tune" they sell us. The vehicle's sensors are irrelevant in this case.

For example, the "hot air" timing tables are zeroed. Ok. Perhaps Superchips found no knock issues as long as the truck was on premium gas, something the factory engineers couldn't ask of the average truck buyer. They had to plan for the guy who blindly runs the truck on 87 octane under load, 24/7.

And finally, I didn't buy a tuner for mileage. In fact, I didn't buy a truck for mileage. I average 9.5 mpg (in town) with the way I drive and I don't care. It's a large truck that still handles and moves the way I want it to. Why would I care about a whopping 1 mpg increase anyway?

 

Well,I wasn't trying to start an arguement. I understand that a lot of people have "felt" HP gains or recorded better gas mileage. I am as good as anyone at trying to justify owning another toy. That's why I'm looking for solid info on this. I'm not calling anyone a liar or saying they don't know what they are talking about. I own a programmer and I would swear that I've felt better horsepower and recorded better fuel mileage. But I do allow for the possibility that I'm fooling myself to justify having the toy. There isn't a company involved in the sale of anything that doesn't use language to their advantage in order to get you to buy their product. I'm skeptical of anything these companies say. [/align][/align]Now I know that some of the language that describes the HP gains with these tuners talks about the entire RPM range, but they don't talk about the entire THROTTLE range. The transmission tuning even states firmer shifting at WOT. It's easy to be skeptical when you hear language like that. That's also why I don't dismiss HankL's comments quite so readily. It's also not necessarily a bad thing that he posts links to other sites. That's almost the definition of a 'second opinion'. Now I'm not saying he's right either. I haven't seen anything he's posted that proves to me that the tuner doesn't help under anything less than WOT. [/align][/align]I do value all your opinions and I hope that we can continue this discussion until we all come to a solid conclusion. Thanks for your input so far.[/align]

 

I have no idea what the hell you guys are talking about, I followed Pappy's lead and BLOCKED HankL's posts, I have less aggravation reading absolute BS while I'm on this forum now. Now if I could figure out how to block him on the other couple of forums we share that don't offer this great feature [:@].

 

lmao

 

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the list and an owner of a 98 Dodge Durango. I don't have a service manual for my vehicle, but I was wonding if anyone knows where I can go online to retrieve a service interval list that shows when I need to change the key components at 60K and 120K. Thanks.



Sean

 

Well, it very difficult to measure horsepower improvement at part throttle, although throttle response me be an indicator. Since the easiest measurable at part throttle is fuel economy, and the tuners all claim to improve fuel economy, I think that you can get a good idea that there is remapping going on at part throttle as well. Would I be getting 2mpg better on the highway with the cruise control set on is there wasn't some sort of remapping? I don't think so.

In fact, I have never seen any performance products marketed to a part throttle audience, as dyno tests tell the story, and part throttle on the dyno has a lot of variables.

 

Anyone ever look up the word Curmudgeon?

Yeah I blocked him long time ago; after I figured out he never hasanything positive toadd or say.
It's always negative with him.

Ask him what he has done to his truck and he will go away for a few days.
So please ask him about his Mods.