HELP with Rear locking Diff & 4x4
#11
05-02-2008, 10:40 AM
RE: HELP with Rear locking Diff & 4x4
Unless you had it changed, the Dodge LSD in the rear is not a locking Diff, it is a limited slip, which is different. The front diff is an open type - meaning neither locker or limited. When in 4wd, with an open diff in front, the wheel on the front axle with the least traction will spin. The LSD in the rear is supposed to be better as it was designed to shift or split torque between the two wheels minimizing the amount of spin on the wheel without traction. Using the brake to "grab" the spining wheel helps split the torque to the wheel with good traction.
From the description, the front axle sounds like it works as designed. Its hard to say if the rear LSD is working or not from the description, because even though it is an LSD only one wheel may still spin in certain traction situations. LSD's do wear out - especially if they are clutch pack types. Dodge LSD's may be mechanical but having it checked may be a good idea. Maybe another poster can help with a simple DIY check by jacking the rear up and turning a tire by hand. I forget, but if you have an LSD, and spin one tire by hand, the oposite wheel will turn a specific direction.
As for changing your diff types, if you plan to really use this equipment, then having either a LSD in front, or a locker that you can turn-on/off is a benfit, along with having a true locker in the rear, butthis modification will only be half better unless you have good aggressive tires. If your not going to really offroad the thing, to me its a cost not worth spending - just get the better tires.
Having both the Powerwagon and a Landcruiser I have true lockers in both the front and rear diffs. I had the Landcruiser stuck in 15" of old snow this last winter. The lockers did not get me out - they did get me into trouble though. After several hours of shoveling, I did get out, but I could not tell if the lockers really helped. One thing for sure, a locker in the front diff that is spinning will tend to shift your vehicle left or right and down a slope and can get you in more trouble by sailing you off the road - ask how I know. Having the front locked diff with an on/off switchwill allow you to turn the thing off to keep you straight on the road. In my situation the BFG T/A's were garbage in the snow.
From the description, the front axle sounds like it works as designed. Its hard to say if the rear LSD is working or not from the description, because even though it is an LSD only one wheel may still spin in certain traction situations. LSD's do wear out - especially if they are clutch pack types. Dodge LSD's may be mechanical but having it checked may be a good idea. Maybe another poster can help with a simple DIY check by jacking the rear up and turning a tire by hand. I forget, but if you have an LSD, and spin one tire by hand, the oposite wheel will turn a specific direction.
As for changing your diff types, if you plan to really use this equipment, then having either a LSD in front, or a locker that you can turn-on/off is a benfit, along with having a true locker in the rear, butthis modification will only be half better unless you have good aggressive tires. If your not going to really offroad the thing, to me its a cost not worth spending - just get the better tires.
Having both the Powerwagon and a Landcruiser I have true lockers in both the front and rear diffs. I had the Landcruiser stuck in 15" of old snow this last winter. The lockers did not get me out - they did get me into trouble though. After several hours of shoveling, I did get out, but I could not tell if the lockers really helped. One thing for sure, a locker in the front diff that is spinning will tend to shift your vehicle left or right and down a slope and can get you in more trouble by sailing you off the road - ask how I know. Having the front locked diff with an on/off switchwill allow you to turn the thing off to keep you straight on the road. In my situation the BFG T/A's were garbage in the snow.
#12
05-02-2008, 11:37 AM
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RE: HELP with Rear locking Diff & 4x4
ORIGINAL: M14
In my situation the BFG T/A's were garbage in the snow.
In my situation the BFG T/A's were garbage in the snow.
A 4x4 system which allows the tires that don't get traction to spin, seams pointless to me! I always thought in a 4x4 system, that when ever a tire would slip, it would transfer the power from that wheel, to the tires that do have traction. At minimum lock the whole axle, not just spin the 1 tire that doesn't get traction.
I don't do a whole lot of off-roading, especially heavy off road, but in the event that I do go off road, and/or heavy snow, I want to be confident that I'm not going to get stuck. Obviously anything can get stuck, but right now, i'm not that confident in this truck's off-road ability.
-TheChad
#13
05-02-2008, 11:55 AM
#14
05-02-2008, 11:57 AM
RE: HELP with Rear locking Diff & 4x4
ORIGINAL: ThaChad
Really? Weird. My BFG T/A's work GREAT in the snow. I went out last winter in all the worst storms, and did not once have traction problems. But I guess they arn't as good in the mud, since I got stick in less than a foot of mud.
I HAD ALL FOUR WHEELS SPINNING AND WAS NOT HIGH CENTERED. THE TREAD WAS PACKED WITH SNOW/ICE AND I HAD 0-TRACTION. SPINNING THE WHEELS FASTER HELPED A SMALL AMOUNT DUE TO CLEARING THE TREAD, BUT THE TIRES JUST ARE NOT AGGRESSIVE ENOUGH WITH DEEP OPEN LUGS TO DO WELL IN SNOW OR MUD. CHAINS ON ALL 4-WHEELS WOULD HELP LOADS HERE.
A 4x4 system which allows the tires that don't get traction to spin, seams pointless to me! I always thought in a 4x4 system, that when ever a tire would slip, it would transfer the power from that wheel, to the tires that do have traction. At minimum lock the whole axle, not just spin the 1 tire that doesn't get traction.
CORRECT. A 4WD WITH OPEN DIFFS IN THE FRONT AND REAR IS REALLY ONLY A TWO-WHEEL DRIVE IN THAT ONE WHEEL IN THE FRONT AND ON WHEEL IN THE REAR WILL SPIN AND KEEP THE VEHICLE STATIONARY. IMAGINE HAVING ONE HALF THE CAR (FRONT AND REAR) ON ICE AND THE OTHER HALF ON SOLID PAVEMENT - YOU WON'T MOVE. THE TRANSFER OF TORQUE BETWEEN WHEELS ONLY OCCURS WITH A LIMITED SLIP DIFF - NOT AN OPEN OR STANDARD DIFFERENTIAL. ALL 4WD DOES IS PROVIDES TORQUE TO THE FRONT AND REAR DIFFERENTIALS VIA THE TRANSFER CASE AND DRIVE SHAFTS. THE DIFFERENTIALS THEMSELVES THEN TAKE THIS TORQUE AND APPLY TO THE WHEELS. A TRUE LOCKED DIFFERENTIAL WILL LOCK BOTH AXELS/WHEELS ON THE DIFFERENTIALTOGETHER ALLOWING BOTH WHEELS TO HAVE HALF THE TORQUE SENT TO THE AXEL. ALSO ON TODAY'S 4WD VEHICLES, IT IS
ALSO TO MAKE IT MORE CONFUSING, IT IS POSSIBLE TO GET A 4WD THAT DOES NOTHAVE A "LOCKED" TRANSFER CASE - MEANING IT WIL ALLOW SLIPAGE BETWEEN THE FRONT AND REAR AXELS. THIS TYPE OF SYSTEM IS USUALLY FOUND ON LIGHTER DUTY VEHCILES SUCH AS CARS AND SMALL SUV'S WITH ALL-WHEEL DRIVE - NOT YOUR DODGE. HOWEVER, BEFORE BUYING A TRUCK NOW DAYS I WOULD BE SURE TO INVESTIGATE HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS.
I don't do a whole lot of off-roading, especially heavy off road, but in the event that I do go off road, and/or heavy snow, I want to be confident that I'm not going to get stuck. Obviously anything can get stuck, but right now, i'm not that confident in this truck's off-road ability.
HMM. I THINK NOT GETTING STUCK HAS TO DO MORE WITH HAVING GOOD TIRES AND DRIVING SKILLS THAN ANYTHING ELSE. WITH THE LANDCRUISER I WAS READY TO GET STUCK AND WAS TRYING TO SEE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF I DROVE UP AN UNPLOWED DRIVEWAY, KNOWING MY FATHER GOT HIS JEEP STUCK DOING THE SAME THING THE YEAR BEFORE. HAVING LOCKERS OR LSD'S IS ALWAYS A NICE TOOL BUT I FOUND IS NOT A GUARANTEE AND WILL GET YOU INTO MORE TROUBLE. REMEMBER, ****** JEEPS AND BRITISH LAND ROVERS ALL HAD OPEN DIFFS IN THE FRONT AND REAR AND THEY ARE LEGENDS IN THEIR 4WD CAPABILITY AND WERE KNOWN TO GO IN PLACES NEITHER OF US WOULD GO. I THINK I WOULD ENJOY AND APPRECIATE YOUR TRUCK AS ITS 4WD IS STILL BETTER THAN HAVE A 2WD CAR.
-TheChad
ORIGINAL: M14
In my situation the BFG T/A's were garbage in the snow.
In my situation the BFG T/A's were garbage in the snow.
I HAD ALL FOUR WHEELS SPINNING AND WAS NOT HIGH CENTERED. THE TREAD WAS PACKED WITH SNOW/ICE AND I HAD 0-TRACTION. SPINNING THE WHEELS FASTER HELPED A SMALL AMOUNT DUE TO CLEARING THE TREAD, BUT THE TIRES JUST ARE NOT AGGRESSIVE ENOUGH WITH DEEP OPEN LUGS TO DO WELL IN SNOW OR MUD. CHAINS ON ALL 4-WHEELS WOULD HELP LOADS HERE.
A 4x4 system which allows the tires that don't get traction to spin, seams pointless to me! I always thought in a 4x4 system, that when ever a tire would slip, it would transfer the power from that wheel, to the tires that do have traction. At minimum lock the whole axle, not just spin the 1 tire that doesn't get traction.
CORRECT. A 4WD WITH OPEN DIFFS IN THE FRONT AND REAR IS REALLY ONLY A TWO-WHEEL DRIVE IN THAT ONE WHEEL IN THE FRONT AND ON WHEEL IN THE REAR WILL SPIN AND KEEP THE VEHICLE STATIONARY. IMAGINE HAVING ONE HALF THE CAR (FRONT AND REAR) ON ICE AND THE OTHER HALF ON SOLID PAVEMENT - YOU WON'T MOVE. THE TRANSFER OF TORQUE BETWEEN WHEELS ONLY OCCURS WITH A LIMITED SLIP DIFF - NOT AN OPEN OR STANDARD DIFFERENTIAL. ALL 4WD DOES IS PROVIDES TORQUE TO THE FRONT AND REAR DIFFERENTIALS VIA THE TRANSFER CASE AND DRIVE SHAFTS. THE DIFFERENTIALS THEMSELVES THEN TAKE THIS TORQUE AND APPLY TO THE WHEELS. A TRUE LOCKED DIFFERENTIAL WILL LOCK BOTH AXELS/WHEELS ON THE DIFFERENTIALTOGETHER ALLOWING BOTH WHEELS TO HAVE HALF THE TORQUE SENT TO THE AXEL. ALSO ON TODAY'S 4WD VEHICLES, IT IS
ALSO TO MAKE IT MORE CONFUSING, IT IS POSSIBLE TO GET A 4WD THAT DOES NOTHAVE A "LOCKED" TRANSFER CASE - MEANING IT WIL ALLOW SLIPAGE BETWEEN THE FRONT AND REAR AXELS. THIS TYPE OF SYSTEM IS USUALLY FOUND ON LIGHTER DUTY VEHCILES SUCH AS CARS AND SMALL SUV'S WITH ALL-WHEEL DRIVE - NOT YOUR DODGE. HOWEVER, BEFORE BUYING A TRUCK NOW DAYS I WOULD BE SURE TO INVESTIGATE HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS.
I don't do a whole lot of off-roading, especially heavy off road, but in the event that I do go off road, and/or heavy snow, I want to be confident that I'm not going to get stuck. Obviously anything can get stuck, but right now, i'm not that confident in this truck's off-road ability.
HMM. I THINK NOT GETTING STUCK HAS TO DO MORE WITH HAVING GOOD TIRES AND DRIVING SKILLS THAN ANYTHING ELSE. WITH THE LANDCRUISER I WAS READY TO GET STUCK AND WAS TRYING TO SEE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF I DROVE UP AN UNPLOWED DRIVEWAY, KNOWING MY FATHER GOT HIS JEEP STUCK DOING THE SAME THING THE YEAR BEFORE. HAVING LOCKERS OR LSD'S IS ALWAYS A NICE TOOL BUT I FOUND IS NOT A GUARANTEE AND WILL GET YOU INTO MORE TROUBLE. REMEMBER, ****** JEEPS AND BRITISH LAND ROVERS ALL HAD OPEN DIFFS IN THE FRONT AND REAR AND THEY ARE LEGENDS IN THEIR 4WD CAPABILITY AND WERE KNOWN TO GO IN PLACES NEITHER OF US WOULD GO. I THINK I WOULD ENJOY AND APPRECIATE YOUR TRUCK AS ITS 4WD IS STILL BETTER THAN HAVE A 2WD CAR.
-TheChad
#15
05-02-2008, 12:07 PM
RE: HELP with Rear locking Diff & 4x4
ORIGINAL: G0tMudd
Also how did u back down in to the ditch, sounds like u put ur back tires in the middle of the ditch with your front tires up at the top, meaning your truck is at a slant facing up words.This is always a BIG no no in mudd.
Also how did u back down in to the ditch, sounds like u put ur back tires in the middle of the ditch with your front tires up at the top, meaning your truck is at a slant facing up words.This is always a BIG no no in mudd.
#16
05-02-2008, 12:25 PM
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RE: HELP with Rear locking Diff & 4x4
ORIGINAL: G0tMudd
Also how did u back down in to the ditch, sounds like u put ur back tires in the middle of the ditch with your front tires up at the top, meaning your truck is at a slant facing up words.This is always a BIG no no in mudd.
Also how did u back down in to the ditch, sounds like u put ur back tires in the middle of the ditch with your front tires up at the top, meaning your truck is at a slant facing up words.This is always a BIG no no in mudd.
\0__0/
If that makes any since!? The 0's are the tires. The \ / are the sides of the ditch.
-TheCHad
#17
12-22-2008, 12:09 AM
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Here is a link to a cool you tube video of some trucks with limited slip and lockers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S2nDDvKHoA There are a lot more on there too. From what I gather if there isn't enough torque to the loose wheel the wheel on firm ground won't get any thats where the parking brake would help out. I'm looking into at least getting a locker for my rear and trying to figure out if a locker on the front wil affect my steering in 2wd other wise I will have to get an air locker or something.
#18
12-22-2008, 12:45 AM
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#19
12-22-2008, 08:20 AM
A LSD is exactly that. LIMITED slip differential. Just because it's there doesn't mean it's always going to activate. A true locker is great, but not so great if your truck is a daily driver. My jeep used to have lock-rite (lunch box locker) lockers in the front and rear. One night coming home, I got on the skinny pedal a little to hard going around a corner. The rear locker locked, and then "BANG". Epic destruction of the locker. I had to put it in 4x4 and limp home with front wheel drive. The locker destroyed 2 shear pins, and took a few teeth with it. I wasn't very impressed with Lock-rite after that.
The moral of the story is, if you want a true 4x4, you will need true lockers front and rear. If it is a daily driver, then you will want a selectable locker for the rear. IE; magnetic, electric, cable, or pneumatic. The same goes for the front. You will want a selectable locker unless you have selectable hubs. With selectable hubs, you can have a full locker up front. IE; Detroit, spool, lock-rite, or lincoln. Just keep your hubs open until you go offroad.
And as stated previously, have a decent 4x4 shop install them. Installing lockers isn't exactly a shade tree job.
Lucas
The moral of the story is, if you want a true 4x4, you will need true lockers front and rear. If it is a daily driver, then you will want a selectable locker for the rear. IE; magnetic, electric, cable, or pneumatic. The same goes for the front. You will want a selectable locker unless you have selectable hubs. With selectable hubs, you can have a full locker up front. IE; Detroit, spool, lock-rite, or lincoln. Just keep your hubs open until you go offroad.
And as stated previously, have a decent 4x4 shop install them. Installing lockers isn't exactly a shade tree job.
Lucas
#20
12-17-2009, 10:34 PM
i know this is a really old thread but i just wanted to say that my 07' 1500 mega cab's rear end locks up very quickly when it senses the slightest amount of slip when i barely step on the gas to do a burn out or if it's just in the rain. i wonder if they maybe some how changed it in the past few years. does your selector switch say "4 wheel lock" on it i'm not sure about the front end locking up but when i shift to the "4 wheel lock" mode and i try to do a sharp turn if jerks a bit as though they were locked. does anyone have any insight on this? and again sorry for bringing back an old thread.
