View Poll Results: What type of Level kit do you have?
02-05 Lift Spacer no wobble
1
50.00%
02-05 Lift Spacer with wobble
0
0%
06-08 Lift Spacer no Wobble
1
50.00%
06-08 Lift Spacer no wobble
0
0%
Lift struts/shocks no wobble
0
0%
Lift struts/shocks w/wobble
0
0%
Voters: 2. You may not vote on this poll
Spacers vs lift struts/shocks and problems ...some faq's and observations
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Spacers vs lift struts/shocks and problems ...some faq's and observations
As for a lift. Moes is selling the new Bilstein lift struts. Goes from 1"-2.5". It's a shock/strut and a lift all in one for $230. The Rancho's are a little bit more as they are 9-way adjustable, but with those two companies producing a product like that... Why would anyone do things half *** with a spacer and an extended strut? unless they just didn't like Rancho or Bilstein, but a spacer on the top of the strut is not a good thing on our Rams.
Reason....Upper balljoint is maxed out when at full drop. Take your tire/wheel off your truck and unbolt everything in sight. The upper control arm will only drop around 1". This is the amount of space that will allow a "lift spacer". When forcing the suspension to drop any further, you are binding the upper balljoint past it's capabilities.
Both Bilstein and Rancho have designed their compnoents not to max out the upper balljoints. The adjustments on the side of the shock to go from 1"-2.5" is the pre-load on the spring. This raises spring tension which generates some lift as well as a stiffer ride...fyi.... The shock itself is also extended by around 3/4"-1" which produces lift as well. The combonation keeps the upper balljoints within 1" of extra angular motion over the OEM specs rather than 2-2.5" that a spacer will create.
I find it very coincidental that guys are having issue's with their lift kits and clunking...etc.... THIS IS PROB. WHY!
This thread has what I just stated in post #11.
Also, i think in that same thread a guy says he had issue's with using 2" spacers in 09's but not 08's. regardless, the problem is the same just amplified which proves the problems everyone is having correct.
I also found an ariticle on the net saying that older Rams(not sure about 06+) that places are having issue's aligning them because they are using the lower control arm adjuster for the caster which the book says to do. This is incorrect. The caster adjustment is on the upper control arm and uses those special slotted keys or what have you. The upper adjuster is the MAIN adjuster. The lower control arm is to "swing" the caster into place for precise tuning. Using the lower control arm for caster adjustment...you will run out of adjustment room and it will be incorrect.
Most vehicles that have mis-aligned caster angles are found crashed on the road.
improperly set caster cause oscillations or shimmy in the steering wheel.....HMMM..I think i had that issue getting on the highway one day as I already complained about!
Reason why some guys have it and other don't....Chrysler has a wide range of what they call "acceptable tolerance" for caster. Just because the alignment shop says it's all within specs doesn't mean you won't have the problem. This is called the alignment guy is being lazy. Te caster should be as close to the center for what is supposedly "allowed". So if caster has a range of 3-6degrees. Adjustment should be 4-5. Not 3.1 or 5.9.
Those numbers are probably horribly wrong. I just fiugured i'd give an example.
I'm no alignment expert, but it seems that with the mix of the "death wobble" that guys are experiencing and the upper balljoint issue, that they are most likely the roles of disturbance in the problems guys are having.
Reason....Upper balljoint is maxed out when at full drop. Take your tire/wheel off your truck and unbolt everything in sight. The upper control arm will only drop around 1". This is the amount of space that will allow a "lift spacer". When forcing the suspension to drop any further, you are binding the upper balljoint past it's capabilities.
Both Bilstein and Rancho have designed their compnoents not to max out the upper balljoints. The adjustments on the side of the shock to go from 1"-2.5" is the pre-load on the spring. This raises spring tension which generates some lift as well as a stiffer ride...fyi.... The shock itself is also extended by around 3/4"-1" which produces lift as well. The combonation keeps the upper balljoints within 1" of extra angular motion over the OEM specs rather than 2-2.5" that a spacer will create.
I find it very coincidental that guys are having issue's with their lift kits and clunking...etc.... THIS IS PROB. WHY!
This thread has what I just stated in post #11.
Also, i think in that same thread a guy says he had issue's with using 2" spacers in 09's but not 08's. regardless, the problem is the same just amplified which proves the problems everyone is having correct.
I also found an ariticle on the net saying that older Rams(not sure about 06+) that places are having issue's aligning them because they are using the lower control arm adjuster for the caster which the book says to do. This is incorrect. The caster adjustment is on the upper control arm and uses those special slotted keys or what have you. The upper adjuster is the MAIN adjuster. The lower control arm is to "swing" the caster into place for precise tuning. Using the lower control arm for caster adjustment...you will run out of adjustment room and it will be incorrect.
Most vehicles that have mis-aligned caster angles are found crashed on the road.
improperly set caster cause oscillations or shimmy in the steering wheel.....HMMM..I think i had that issue getting on the highway one day as I already complained about!
Reason why some guys have it and other don't....Chrysler has a wide range of what they call "acceptable tolerance" for caster. Just because the alignment shop says it's all within specs doesn't mean you won't have the problem. This is called the alignment guy is being lazy. Te caster should be as close to the center for what is supposedly "allowed". So if caster has a range of 3-6degrees. Adjustment should be 4-5. Not 3.1 or 5.9.
Those numbers are probably horribly wrong. I just fiugured i'd give an example.
I'm no alignment expert, but it seems that with the mix of the "death wobble" that guys are experiencing and the upper balljoint issue, that they are most likely the roles of disturbance in the problems guys are having.
Last edited by dirtydog; Dec 31, 2009 at 12:39 PM. Reason: spelling errors
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Good post 'dog, I think I'm gonna copy it without the poll to the FAQ section.
BTW, even though I have a torsion bar front, I've installed the Rancho on an '06 for a buddy, was a VERY solid setup and I agree that there is no reason to even think about poly spacers if you have an '06+ IFS Ram 4x4.
Also, I answered a guy's PM a while back who asked me about his local shop not being able to get his alignment right after three tries and was trying to sell him all new 3rd party front end components because the stock control arm had "almost no adjustment". I told him to go back to the a$$holes and tell them to adjust for camber on the UPPER control arm. He PM'd me back and said they told him he was crazy but would look at it again. He thanked me two days later!!!
BTW, even though I have a torsion bar front, I've installed the Rancho on an '06 for a buddy, was a VERY solid setup and I agree that there is no reason to even think about poly spacers if you have an '06+ IFS Ram 4x4.
Also, I answered a guy's PM a while back who asked me about his local shop not being able to get his alignment right after three tries and was trying to sell him all new 3rd party front end components because the stock control arm had "almost no adjustment". I told him to go back to the a$$holes and tell them to adjust for camber on the UPPER control arm. He PM'd me back and said they told him he was crazy but would look at it again. He thanked me two days later!!!
Last edited by HammerZ71; Dec 31, 2009 at 12:25 PM.
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From: Albany, NY
I have been diggin as dep as possible if I am going to install the Rancho RS9000xl's on my truck. i would hate to spend all the money on a spacer = $80+, then adding shocks...$120+ which totals out to over $200 the cheap way. Bilsteins are only $230.
The poll was an afterthough Hammer. it still is slightly unfair poll as ther are clearly more spacer lifts compared to lift strut kits out there since they are fairly new and recent to the market.
As far as the 2" spacer there Rubberfrog....i was thinking of adding that stuff into the poll but it would have been out of hand. Most guys with a 2" spacer have been o.K. It's not until the 2.5" spacer where all the trouble comes into effect. But still....if there's trouble with the 2.5", trouble is lurking around the corner for that 2" on the heavy bumps.
The poll was an afterthough Hammer. it still is slightly unfair poll as ther are clearly more spacer lifts compared to lift strut kits out there since they are fairly new and recent to the market.
As far as the 2" spacer there Rubberfrog....i was thinking of adding that stuff into the poll but it would have been out of hand. Most guys with a 2" spacer have been o.K. It's not until the 2.5" spacer where all the trouble comes into effect. But still....if there's trouble with the 2.5", trouble is lurking around the corner for that 2" on the heavy bumps.
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From: Northern Virginia
I have been diggin as dep as possible if I am going to install the Rancho RS9000xl's on my truck. i would hate to spend all the money on a spacer = $80+, then adding shocks...$120+ which totals out to over $200 the cheap way. Bilsteins are only $230.
The poll was an afterthough Hammer. it still is slightly unfair poll as ther are clearly more spacer lifts compared to lift strut kits out there since they are fairly new and recent to the market.
As far as the 2" spacer there Rubberfrog....i was thinking of adding that stuff into the poll but it would have been out of hand. Most guys with a 2" spacer have been o.K. It's not until the 2.5" spacer where all the trouble comes into effect. But still....if there's trouble with the 2.5", trouble is lurking around the corner for that 2" on the heavy bumps.
The poll was an afterthough Hammer. it still is slightly unfair poll as ther are clearly more spacer lifts compared to lift strut kits out there since they are fairly new and recent to the market.
As far as the 2" spacer there Rubberfrog....i was thinking of adding that stuff into the poll but it would have been out of hand. Most guys with a 2" spacer have been o.K. It's not until the 2.5" spacer where all the trouble comes into effect. But still....if there's trouble with the 2.5", trouble is lurking around the corner for that 2" on the heavy bumps.
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From: Albany, NY
I understand those situations. I'm not trying to pick on those people as that was the only option previously. But for what's available today. Anyone would be silly not to buy the kit rather than mix/match and go through the hassles of finding longer shocks or a level kit that will bottom out. Especially since an alignment is needed after touching the front suspension.
Take the cheap route today will cost $80+ for spacer plus installation hassles and then add in an alignment. Then to later on add longer shocks and go through all that work again and pay for an alignment again. you get the idea.
RS9000xl's quicklifts are surely the way to go. Aleast guys can get the Bilsteins for $230 if they are on a budget.
Take the cheap route today will cost $80+ for spacer plus installation hassles and then add in an alignment. Then to later on add longer shocks and go through all that work again and pay for an alignment again. you get the idea.
RS9000xl's quicklifts are surely the way to go. Aleast guys can get the Bilsteins for $230 if they are on a budget.
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From: South Georgia/East Florida
I actually have 2" coil spacers on my Grand Cherokee, but I think given the cost of the spacer and shocks, the Rancho or Bilstein all-in-one deals are a much better solution for not a lot more money...
Oops, I posted before reading your second post...