I'm not defending the oil company in the least. But to be fair, the oil company's DO NOT SET PRICES. Wall street does. It's called "future trading", and another term used in particular to oil. "Energy trading". Mid-east tensions, supply and demand, and oil rig as well as refinery failures take a part in determining the price of oil. We are not the only country that consumes this product. With the HUGE gains India, and China have been making concerning their economy in the last 5-8 years they are consuming 10x the oil they were since then.

What did you expect? To continue paying 90 cents to a dollar for a gallon of gas even though the world demand skyrockets? It's stupid to blame the oil companys who are providing an energy we all take for granted. I agree that auto makers only have themselves to blame for poor performing vehicles with ver low gas mileage. Letting unions back them into corners so they can pay into extorionate retirement benefits because said work knows how to slide Slot A into Slot B. They reap what they sow, let capitalism take it's course Ford will either survive or die. We should DEMAND that the government not subsidize it with millions of our tax dollars to be given to even more socialist hand outs to people who don't deserve it.

 

Sir, please don't be blind. MSNBC recently conducted an investigation into the oil industry. The oil industry led the population to believe that the reason why oil/gas prices were so high was due to a high demand. A reporter recently traced the origins of the oil used/consumed in this country, and found out that a majority of it was not from where the oil companies said it was from.
Secondly, why is it that countries like Venezuela can ship millions of barrels of oil to the United States, specifically low income families in New York City for half the price that the OPEC producing companies were selling it for?
Why don't you do a little research for yourself, check and see where the majority of the money is going.
They have the technology to create vehicles that use a fraction of the oil, that it use's now, but to do so, will only cut into there profits.
Why is it that a country like Japan, which we defeated, can produce not one, not two, but several alternative fueled vehicles?
And a super power like the United States can't/Won't? Oil=Money.......Don't be blind, read between the lines...

 

Yes Ford does have some junk. And so does other auto makers.
Well I do admit that some Unions have laze people in them. I fore one am for Unions. I have been in the Carpenters Union for 10 years now and Damn proud of it. I get a fair pay, good Medical and Retirement. With out the Union I would have not have Benefits. I blame the Government for letting foreign companies into the US. We get more then we receive. I blame the Government for the Free Trade Agreement, NAFTA and CAFTA We get a lot of crap from foreign companies. I for one try to buy Union made. But most of all I buy Made in USA.
Buying produces that’s NOT Made in USA is not good for us. It’s mostly junk. And where are losing are jobs over it. The CEOs of US Companies does not need to make millions and millions if dollars. Let the people that make the product have the money Thy worked for it. Also put the money back into the Company.

 

Ahhh the same main stream media that said the Koran had been flushed down the toilet in Gitmo which was false. The same Main stream media that has a not so bright record of reporting falsly for the past 2 decades. Sorry but I won't be relying on Half truths to form my opinion. I look at all different factors, You sir need to read between the lines, and do a little research. The oil company's don't even control their own product. We can't even drill for our own on oil, in our own country. We have to import it from unfriendly countries, and you wanna sit there and say the oil company's are controlling prices? Right, because they have a global grasp over the entire planet, and prices are being controlled by just the big 3.

As to answer the question about alternative fuels, I agree, but take into consideration that the american consumer is much different than his/her japanese counterpart. In order for a product to gain a foot hold in America, it has to meet 3 strict guidlines. 1.) Has to be mass produced. 2) Has to be reliable 3.) And most importantly has to be cheap or it will not sell to the middle or lower class.

There have been alternative means of fuel since the automobile's inception. The reason they haven't caught on is mass production and pricing. You find an alternative fuel that can be mass produced, is safe and reliable, and is relatively inexspensive you will be a billionare over night. Until then do a lil research and read between the lines.

 

Saber, you're comical.....You stated that it has to be mass produced. Well, we have factories.
You say it has to be reliable. What are you saying? are you saying that we aren't capable of making a reliable alternative vehicle?
Basically, what you are saying, if i understand you correctly is that other countries are superior to us. They can make reliable alternative fuel vehicles and we can't. Is that what you are saying? Is that it?
And you mentioned cheap. Well mass produced = cheap. You have Ford, GMC, Chevy, Dodge, sounds like alot of manufacturing plants to me.

 

You are comical to say the least, your limited knowledge of how this economy works is a real sign you vote democratic, as I vote independant. (I hate democrats and republicans equally both parties are selling us out) Look I'll lay it out for you, real simple like. In the past decade you may of noticed that manufacturing jobs are leaving this country faster than they started. One reason it's TOO DAMN EXSPENSIVE TO MANUFACTURE IN AMERICA!. Plain and simple. I never said other countries are superior to ours, you did, far from it, we are becoming a service oriented economy, not that I like it, but hey that's where it is going. Everything anymore is made in 3rd world countries so that companys can keep a profit. You don't make a profit paying someone 18 bucks an hour with full benefits for a manufacturing job, or bagging your groceries (california strikes in 04) reason being your product is too over priced to be competative with someone else selling the same product who doesn't pay their employee's as much or not as many benefits. That's reality my friend, the bold and ugly truth right there staring you in the face.


All I said was this, If You can do what I described above you will without a doubt become a billionare, because there is a demand for it. The problem is mass producing said energy source into a cheap commodity. Ethonal is not cheap to make and requires a lot of energy to to do so. Think of it this way, a barrel of oil drops below 50 bucks a barrel, ethonal becomes an over priced energy source. Fuel cells are extremely exspensive and the technology is in it's infancy. No where near mass production status, give it 5-10 years it could be with further development. Right now the power plant to power a car is the size of a refrigerator, not an ideal power plant. Hydrogen has a problem of it being extremely flammable, is not that easily harvested without lots of energy and not very easy to transport on a large scale to a country the size of the United States with an infostructure developed and designed for petroleum. Electric powered cars, need I say more, very limited in range and way too long to refuel. Develop a battery that can store lots of energy, and can fully charge in under a minute, again you will be a billionare. Hybrid cars I see as a bandaid on a artery rupture. they may help a little bit, but the energy is still deprived from good old fashioned oil.

You can't just will this energy problem away, I agree we NEED another energy source so that we aren't funding our enemy's and quit polluting the atmosphere. But you will NEVER get an energy product to sell unless you can make LOT'S of it, and it's safe reliable, and relatively inexspensive. All the other alternative energy sources are unable to fulfill that need in this point in time. That's the reality of this matter.

I'm not insulting you, and I'm not saying it's impossible to do, all I'm saying is look at the bigger picture.

 

The thing is, I think you're both right. We've got the factories, but American corporations have not left us in a position where we can produce what we need to. We are in a service economy, but that's a trend that needs to be reversed, not encouraged. If anyone thinks we can all be managers of foreign workers, I'd ask that person what happens in 10 years when all these managers have no hands-on experience and no understanding of the underlying tools and techniques? Mass production in 2006 means a lot (but not all) of processes need automation, and robots - we can do this, we have the technology!

But, it's expensive. All of these things require an initial investment. The American automakers were swimming in cash up until a few years ago, and could have begun this work. They could have spent money on innovation, don't you agree? Odds are we wouldn't be in a world where we can run vehicles on garbage and beer cans like in Back To The Future, but I have to believe we'd at least have more efficient gasoline engines. Or maybe by now they'd have refined (and reduced costs of) the manufacturing processes of hybrid vehicles. Look, if you can concentrate the efforts of scientists and engineers on cool, interesting problems like this, they're going to come up with answers if there are any. That's why i was saying before that they dropped the ball.

And another thing... instead of encouraging the American penchant for big vehicles for people who didn't need them, the marketing efforts could have been directed at convincing people to do something better. How about some good old fashioned American salesmanship? They went the easy way, saying "we're giving people what they want." It was short-sighted for the companies to do this and not have a back-up plan!

Geologists have been estimating the peak of crude oil extraction for decades, literally. One guy came out with a controversial report back in the late '60's, and more recently other geologists have come to similar conclusions. Many of them are saying that now we have used up more than half. This means we're at the point where it will get more expensive to extract oil from the ground instead of cheaper. Oil will become harder to find and where it is left is harder to reach. This is not news. This has been reported on even in business magazines, not even scientific ones. These automaker execs know this information, they've known it but haven't done anything about it... because the kind of innovation I'm talking about hurts short-term profits. And as I stated earlier, these guys look at 3 month goals. That's what Wall Street wants to see, quarterly earnings. They need to put on their resumes that they increased quarterly earnings x% using whatever off-the-wall strategy is fashionable at the country club.

So what are we truck owners supposed to do? We want to buy American to support our fellow citizens and to keep our dollars closer to home. We need vehicles that suit our lifestyles and/or work requirements. We can't do those two things plus get an "environmentally responsible" vehicle.

 

Since posting this, I've been very interested in the posts.

I have been reading just today, about possible........POSSIBLE ........merger talks between GM and Ford.
Also, in the financial world, it is bandied about that both GM and Ford have also been in talks with Nissan and Renault.
Apparently the shares in both GM and Ford surged.
Also, according to press both Ford and GM routinely discuss "issues of mutual interest" with other car makers.

Financial institutions comment, that there's a surplus of cars throughout the world, in particular the USA, where the consumer is drawing in his/her (pc correct ha ha ha) horns.
These talks may get nowhere, but what is certain, there is some big shake out coming.......
Al.

 

Thanks abarmby. I had to google those things for myself... couldn't wait for tonight (11AM here) . Don't tell my boss.

I found a bunch of articles. Here are two:

Ford, GM have discussed merger or alliance - report

GM, Nissan-Renault talks enter final phase

The GM/Nissan/Renault allicance seems like a no-brainer. It sounds like GM would be on the winning side of that arrangement through savings in "joint purchasing of parts and raw materials, outsourcing of car assembly, and joint development of advanced technology. "

Nobody from Ford or GM is answering questions about a merger. That's different than them saying "no way, no how." Something could happen there. Wouldn't that be interesting?!

 

Thank God I finally found a forum that's not all union happy. Visit one of the Cadillac forums and you'll hear a completely different story.

I gotta come back and read this entire thread later, it looks to be very entertaining.