For those of you with CAI's
#11
10-03-2006, 11:38 AM
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#12
10-03-2006, 01:56 PM
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RE: For those of you with CAI's
ORIGINAL: mmorgan78
I'm with you, Dirty.
I wouldn't worry about water getting in there, as long as you have a hood and your wheel-well liners are in place. I immagine if you were really swimming through deap stuff you'd be looking for a snorkel.
[IMG]local://upfiles/22316/094785CBE74041F99D0CB5533783180C.jpg[/IMG]
I'm with you, Dirty.
I wouldn't worry about water getting in there, as long as you have a hood and your wheel-well liners are in place. I immagine if you were really swimming through deap stuff you'd be looking for a snorkel.
[IMG]local://upfiles/22316/094785CBE74041F99D0CB5533783180C.jpg[/IMG]
I have an AFE stage 2 setup on my CTD and wouldnt trade it for the world...paid $430 for it (has the proguard filter)... a little pricy but worth it.
#13
10-03-2006, 02:28 PM
RE: For those of you with CAI's
If you are going to spend hundreds of $
why not test the air intake properly
and send it back for a refund if it doesn't pass
a 'two truck' test?
----
This post has more information rather than less.
It is designed to give you tools to spend money effectively.
If you have already made a purchase
there is a chance that reading this
may make you unhappy or emotional.
Don't blame the aftermarket air intake for not giving you a MPG increase.
There has been lots of careful scientific testing of all kinds of air intakes
and the result is that they neither increase/decrease MPG on gasoline engines.
But you can also reliably predict that if 1000 customers buy an air intake
that
DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
and then these customers check their next tank to see if it improves MPG,
then 500 of these customers will see an improvement,
500 customers will see a decrease,
and ONLY if you could collect and average all 1000 of the next tanks
of gasolines would you find a true average of zero.
If less restrictive air inlet system improved MPG,
after the last 20 yrs of C.A.F.E.
(Corporate Average Fuel Economy)
government MPG standards,
you would now see massive air intakes with 2 foot high by 4 foot wide
openings - even on the smallest 4 cyl compact.
Honda,
in a spirit of fierce pride,
told its student engineers to do everything possible on the
Insight Hybrid to get the greatest possible MPG
- they were in a 'bragging rights' competition
with Audi CEO and Porsche's grandson Ferdinand Piech
who was having his Audi student engineers build the
four seat Audi A3 aluminum body/3 cyl diesel
as the world's highest MPG car,
called the '3 Liter Car'
because the Audi A3 only needed 3 liters of fuel to go 100 kilometers.
This is about 83 mpg.
Honda used every known trick in the gasoline engineering book to get over 70
MPG to beat Audi's fuel economy of 3 liters per 100 km on diesel. Notice that
Honda was starting out about 20% behind because they were trying to make a
gasoline engine powered vehicle beat a diesel power vehicle for 'world
bragging rights.'
Go look at the air intake of a Honda Insight.
What do you see?
If you don't want to trust just the Honda,
go check out the Toyota Prius, Lexus 400H and Ford Escape Hybrid air intakes.
See a trend?
Check out the 2006 Corvette Z06 air intake for a 'ram air' design on a
vehicle that can reach 'only' 198 mph. You can bet several engineers
spent hours trying to tweak this inlet to get an extra 2 mph.
It would be easy to do a RELIABLE test of any two air intakes at the
dragstrip.
The way to do it would be to get two nearly identical trucks. They don't
have to be exactly identical but the closer the better.
The two trucks would line up against each other at least 4 times and
preferably 8 or more.
The first half of the runs one truck would have the air intake
and the other would have the stock air intake. After each pass
the drivers swap trucks. Then for the second half of the passes
the two trucks would swap intakes.
In making comparisons it is better to look at terminal speed rather than ET,
but subtracting 60 foot times from ET and comparing those is worthwhile too.
If the air intake really makes a average gain in terminal speed on both trucks
when installed that is pretty reasonable proof.
You might ask yourself:
Why doesn't each air intake maker hire an independent lab to do this and
verify that their intake is superior?
If you do 20 runs instead of 8,
and if the air intake makes a gain in terminal speed on 19 of those 20 runs,
then you are approaching the kind of proof scientists and MD's are supposed to
have before they 'publish' a fact in a magazine.
They wouldn't even have to hire a 'lab'.
Two of the following 'straight shooting' automotive writers (James Dulley,
Dan Neil, Steve Dulich, Rick Ehrenberg) have records that prove their
opinions can't be bought and could probably be paid a nominal
fee & travel expenses to face off against one another in a test.
A side benefit of the above test is that you could also settle bets as to
which of the two drivers was better, which can be fun. Killing two birds with
the same stone, so to speak.
A properly designed air intake can give modest increases of torque and
horsepower at wide open throttle - but sometimes this comes at the cost of
increased noise or filters that get clogged with bugs and dirt faster.
If you are willing to tolerate more noise, in nearly every case you can
build a better air intake than you can buy.
This post has a Part II about the cheapest way to test any air intake.
Don't want to do testing and want a shortcut toward an effective
air intake?
Well, in a nutshell just remount your stock air box so that it will suck air
out of the cavity behind the firewall and below the windshield where your air
vents presently get their air. This spot will give you cooler air, higher
pressure air, and it will not pickup bugs/road grit as badly as an inlet near
the front grill.
Why didn't your vehicle suck air from this spot in the first place?
Because with the interior cab air vent inlets there it allows A LOT of NOISE
to go into the vehicle's cabin.
As a matter of fact, most aftermarket air intakes
JUST MAKE EXTRA NOISE.
This extra noise convinces most owners
that they are making more horsepower - no kidding.
If you read enough auto postings you come to the conclusion that many young
owners are really after 'Excitement' not true vehicle performance you
can time with a stopwatch. The loud mufflers, the loud stereos, the
vibrations of hard shock absorbers, the unstable feeling while driving high
lifted suspensions - it is really more about excitement than performance. Note
many of these same vehicle owners are heavy players of video games.
In addition to the spot at the base of the windshield, at the front of the
radiator grille, and - surprise - a scoop at the top of the tire in the fender
interior are spots where high velocity air can be converted to high pressure.
Notice that I have NOT said to rely on dyno testing of air intakes...I have
said do road tests.
Why?
Because you can't really test an aftermarket air intake system on a dyno where
the vehicle is not moving and an electric fan is blowing air at the radiator.
This makes it SO EASY TO CHEAT that you can make any air intake show a HP
increase on the dyno graph. Don't trust any dyno graph that claims to show an
aftermarket air intake horsepower gain. Realistic airflow around the vehicle
is critical to seeing whether it really works.
Note that KN Filters lists how independent laboratories verify their air
flow claims and their performance claims, but there is not a link to where an
independent lab has verified any MPG improvement claim. That is because the
engineers at KN Filters know that any MPG gain or loss that a customer reports
is really just 'random variation.' But that does not keep KN from quotes such
as 'Customers report 1-2 better MPG.' Note how that is 'literally true' but
not 'scientifically valid.' Those are known as 'Weasel Words' in the
advertising trade.
http://www.knfilters.com/testmethod.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/powertesting.htm
Even with all the warnings about how easy it is to cheat or make mistakes in
dyno testing, this series of posts by Dodge 5.7 Hemi owners is worth reading.
Note how well the stock air inlet system worked.
http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=14140
For examples about how one lone automotive enthusiast went about (imperfectly)
doing some home air filter element testing similar to that described above, go
to this link:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest2.htm
If you have read this far and presently think that the author
'Hates Cold Air Intakes' or thinks not a single one provides any gain
you have misunderstood and are urged to reconsider.
why not test the air intake properly
and send it back for a refund if it doesn't pass
a 'two truck' test?
----
This post has more information rather than less.
It is designed to give you tools to spend money effectively.
If you have already made a purchase
there is a chance that reading this
may make you unhappy or emotional.
Don't blame the aftermarket air intake for not giving you a MPG increase.
There has been lots of careful scientific testing of all kinds of air intakes
and the result is that they neither increase/decrease MPG on gasoline engines.
But you can also reliably predict that if 1000 customers buy an air intake
that
DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
and then these customers check their next tank to see if it improves MPG,
then 500 of these customers will see an improvement,
500 customers will see a decrease,
and ONLY if you could collect and average all 1000 of the next tanks
of gasolines would you find a true average of zero.
If less restrictive air inlet system improved MPG,
after the last 20 yrs of C.A.F.E.
(Corporate Average Fuel Economy)
government MPG standards,
you would now see massive air intakes with 2 foot high by 4 foot wide
openings - even on the smallest 4 cyl compact.
Honda,
in a spirit of fierce pride,
told its student engineers to do everything possible on the
Insight Hybrid to get the greatest possible MPG
- they were in a 'bragging rights' competition
with Audi CEO and Porsche's grandson Ferdinand Piech
who was having his Audi student engineers build the
four seat Audi A3 aluminum body/3 cyl diesel
as the world's highest MPG car,
called the '3 Liter Car'
because the Audi A3 only needed 3 liters of fuel to go 100 kilometers.
This is about 83 mpg.
Honda used every known trick in the gasoline engineering book to get over 70
MPG to beat Audi's fuel economy of 3 liters per 100 km on diesel. Notice that
Honda was starting out about 20% behind because they were trying to make a
gasoline engine powered vehicle beat a diesel power vehicle for 'world
bragging rights.'
Go look at the air intake of a Honda Insight.
What do you see?
If you don't want to trust just the Honda,
go check out the Toyota Prius, Lexus 400H and Ford Escape Hybrid air intakes.
See a trend?
Check out the 2006 Corvette Z06 air intake for a 'ram air' design on a
vehicle that can reach 'only' 198 mph. You can bet several engineers
spent hours trying to tweak this inlet to get an extra 2 mph.
It would be easy to do a RELIABLE test of any two air intakes at the
dragstrip.
The way to do it would be to get two nearly identical trucks. They don't
have to be exactly identical but the closer the better.
The two trucks would line up against each other at least 4 times and
preferably 8 or more.
The first half of the runs one truck would have the air intake
and the other would have the stock air intake. After each pass
the drivers swap trucks. Then for the second half of the passes
the two trucks would swap intakes.
In making comparisons it is better to look at terminal speed rather than ET,
but subtracting 60 foot times from ET and comparing those is worthwhile too.
If the air intake really makes a average gain in terminal speed on both trucks
when installed that is pretty reasonable proof.
You might ask yourself:
Why doesn't each air intake maker hire an independent lab to do this and
verify that their intake is superior?
If you do 20 runs instead of 8,
and if the air intake makes a gain in terminal speed on 19 of those 20 runs,
then you are approaching the kind of proof scientists and MD's are supposed to
have before they 'publish' a fact in a magazine.
They wouldn't even have to hire a 'lab'.
Two of the following 'straight shooting' automotive writers (James Dulley,
Dan Neil, Steve Dulich, Rick Ehrenberg) have records that prove their
opinions can't be bought and could probably be paid a nominal
fee & travel expenses to face off against one another in a test.
A side benefit of the above test is that you could also settle bets as to
which of the two drivers was better, which can be fun. Killing two birds with
the same stone, so to speak.
A properly designed air intake can give modest increases of torque and
horsepower at wide open throttle - but sometimes this comes at the cost of
increased noise or filters that get clogged with bugs and dirt faster.
If you are willing to tolerate more noise, in nearly every case you can
build a better air intake than you can buy.
This post has a Part II about the cheapest way to test any air intake.
Don't want to do testing and want a shortcut toward an effective
air intake?
Well, in a nutshell just remount your stock air box so that it will suck air
out of the cavity behind the firewall and below the windshield where your air
vents presently get their air. This spot will give you cooler air, higher
pressure air, and it will not pickup bugs/road grit as badly as an inlet near
the front grill.
Why didn't your vehicle suck air from this spot in the first place?
Because with the interior cab air vent inlets there it allows A LOT of NOISE
to go into the vehicle's cabin.
As a matter of fact, most aftermarket air intakes
JUST MAKE EXTRA NOISE.
This extra noise convinces most owners
that they are making more horsepower - no kidding.
If you read enough auto postings you come to the conclusion that many young
owners are really after 'Excitement' not true vehicle performance you
can time with a stopwatch. The loud mufflers, the loud stereos, the
vibrations of hard shock absorbers, the unstable feeling while driving high
lifted suspensions - it is really more about excitement than performance. Note
many of these same vehicle owners are heavy players of video games.
In addition to the spot at the base of the windshield, at the front of the
radiator grille, and - surprise - a scoop at the top of the tire in the fender
interior are spots where high velocity air can be converted to high pressure.
Notice that I have NOT said to rely on dyno testing of air intakes...I have
said do road tests.
Why?
Because you can't really test an aftermarket air intake system on a dyno where
the vehicle is not moving and an electric fan is blowing air at the radiator.
This makes it SO EASY TO CHEAT that you can make any air intake show a HP
increase on the dyno graph. Don't trust any dyno graph that claims to show an
aftermarket air intake horsepower gain. Realistic airflow around the vehicle
is critical to seeing whether it really works.
Note that KN Filters lists how independent laboratories verify their air
flow claims and their performance claims, but there is not a link to where an
independent lab has verified any MPG improvement claim. That is because the
engineers at KN Filters know that any MPG gain or loss that a customer reports
is really just 'random variation.' But that does not keep KN from quotes such
as 'Customers report 1-2 better MPG.' Note how that is 'literally true' but
not 'scientifically valid.' Those are known as 'Weasel Words' in the
advertising trade.
http://www.knfilters.com/testmethod.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/powertesting.htm
Even with all the warnings about how easy it is to cheat or make mistakes in
dyno testing, this series of posts by Dodge 5.7 Hemi owners is worth reading.
Note how well the stock air inlet system worked.
http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=14140
For examples about how one lone automotive enthusiast went about (imperfectly)
doing some home air filter element testing similar to that described above, go
to this link:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest2.htm
If you have read this far and presently think that the author
'Hates Cold Air Intakes' or thinks not a single one provides any gain
you have misunderstood and are urged to reconsider.
#14
10-03-2006, 09:54 PM
#15
10-04-2006, 01:43 AM
#16
10-04-2006, 12:29 PM
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RE: For those of you with CAI's
ORIGINAL: ChxHawk
I was able to get the new AFE for my 06 HEMI through a Diesel Shop my dad works for, I paid about $280 ($300) with shipping.... 3 months ago pricing should still be the same....
Let me know if anyone is interested I will pass along the contact info.....
I was able to get the new AFE for my 06 HEMI through a Diesel Shop my dad works for, I paid about $280 ($300) with shipping.... 3 months ago pricing should still be the same....
Let me know if anyone is interested I will pass along the contact info.....
#17
10-05-2006, 02:48 AM
RE: For those of you with CAI's
I like it a lot, not too loud, has that meaty sound, I am getting almost 16mpg, 2006 Dodge Ram HEMI QC 4x4 Laramie, if I stay out of it, I am getting almost 400 miles to a tank. Everyone I have talked to love the AFE.....I am impressed with the ease of install look and performance, I need exhaust to top it off, any suggestions on that end?
#18
10-05-2006, 01:09 PM
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RE: For those of you with CAI's
Well if your into the not to loud but meaty/throaty sound I would go with a borla cat-back setup. The tone is very crisp and healthy and gives it a nice throaty tone. The best way to describe it would be a completely performance sounding and adding system. When I dont get on it it upped my mileage by about a mpg not to mention the very noticable improvements in throttle responce and hp/torque. There is little to no drone in the cab. The only downside is that it is a performance exhaust so its kinda pricey but well worth it. However this is on an 05' ram 1500 so Im not sure how they'll sound on a 06' specially if you have the MDS system in it cause from what Ive heard on here and around town on 06' rams when the mds kicks in it makes the exhaust sound like crap so do some research on it before you go out and buy a system. I know there is a company that makes a setup specifically for the MDS system but Im not 100% sure who it is.
#19
10-05-2006, 01:29 PM
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#20
10-05-2006, 05:44 PM
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RE: For those of you with CAI's
I didn't go off topic I just answered a quick question. As for what Im looking for I alread stated it in my very first post to start the topic. I want the AFE Stage II High Breather and my main concern with it was how it is going to sound running through the resonator vs running directly into the intake and which way is "better".