Dealer TRICKED ME! READ THIS
#11
11-08-2006, 11:58 AM
RE: Dealer TRICKED ME! READ THIS
I replaced the upper dash on my 99, and if anyone says that pulling the dash out is a quick job has either done it all their life, or are smoking crack. I had to drop the steering wheel, remove the passenger airbag, and the dash cluster (dont break the little white clip) and that was the straigth forward pieces. It took the majority of an afternoon, with OEM Dodge parts. That was just the top half. Im glad it wasnt on a 94-97 cause you have to swap the whole dash(including the lower).
#12
11-08-2006, 12:52 PM
RE: Dealer TRICKED ME! READ THIS
Wow..........[sm=insomnia.gif]
I thought this was the Dodge Forum not the Dodge "Dealer / Mechanic" Forum.
OK, that said,
First, I dont believe I said that ALL dealers / mechanics were rip offs. I simply said that perhaps the labor was overbilled. This was also mentioned in subsequent posts by other individuals as well. The labor is billed based on an average time for the job.The labor after all is where the shop makes there $$$.
Now I'm sure that taking the dash off and keeping track of all the little pieces can be dificult and time consuming but I'm also sure you can also attest to the fact that when I bring my truck in that YOU may not be the mechanic assigned to the job and that just maybe theres that 1 guy in the shop that either doesnt give a darn or doesnt know his **** from a gumball machine who will get the job.
So while I'm paying Cletus top dollar for labor hes walkin around the shop, takin smoke breaks when he gets winded, and watchin the clock so he can get home or maybe just so he doesnt get tapped on the shoulder to do say the tranny job, brake job, whatever.
So, If i've stepped on anyones steel toes......WAH
THe bottom line is that the stealers get this rep for a reason.
I'm not unreasonable myself and I regularly have the dealer perform the work that needs done. Now becouse I am paying for there Service? I also feel as though I should be able to expect better service from them than from Cletuses brother in law (cousin) wholl do the work in his back yard for beer.
I thought this was the Dodge Forum not the Dodge "Dealer / Mechanic" Forum.
OK, that said,
First, I dont believe I said that ALL dealers / mechanics were rip offs. I simply said that perhaps the labor was overbilled. This was also mentioned in subsequent posts by other individuals as well. The labor is billed based on an average time for the job.The labor after all is where the shop makes there $$$.
Now I'm sure that taking the dash off and keeping track of all the little pieces can be dificult and time consuming but I'm also sure you can also attest to the fact that when I bring my truck in that YOU may not be the mechanic assigned to the job and that just maybe theres that 1 guy in the shop that either doesnt give a darn or doesnt know his **** from a gumball machine who will get the job.
So while I'm paying Cletus top dollar for labor hes walkin around the shop, takin smoke breaks when he gets winded, and watchin the clock so he can get home or maybe just so he doesnt get tapped on the shoulder to do say the tranny job, brake job, whatever.
So, If i've stepped on anyones steel toes......WAH
THe bottom line is that the stealers get this rep for a reason.
I'm not unreasonable myself and I regularly have the dealer perform the work that needs done. Now becouse I am paying for there Service? I also feel as though I should be able to expect better service from them than from Cletuses brother in law (cousin) wholl do the work in his back yard for beer.
#13
11-08-2006, 01:29 PM
RE: Dealer TRICKED ME! READ THIS
The real problem is paying for billed hours versus actual labor hours.
I dont mind paying for four hours IF they work the four hours. What pisses me off is paying for four hours when after two hours the mechanic is already done and started on another vehicle while the service dept. lets you sit there thinking you are getting your money's worth. I have seen this happen. I also have family members (in-laws) that are mechanics for both Ford and Chrysler. They love being paid for 12-14 billed hours in an 8 hour day (7 hrs work, 1 hr break/lunch).
Many years ago I worked for a small family-owned auto shop as a parts runner/helper. The mechanics there wrote down the start time and the finish time for each job they were assigned. The customer was only billed for the actual time the mechanic was in contact with their vehicle. I am afraid that honesty/fairness such as this is completely gone in the past...
I dont mind paying for four hours IF they work the four hours. What pisses me off is paying for four hours when after two hours the mechanic is already done and started on another vehicle while the service dept. lets you sit there thinking you are getting your money's worth. I have seen this happen. I also have family members (in-laws) that are mechanics for both Ford and Chrysler. They love being paid for 12-14 billed hours in an 8 hour day (7 hrs work, 1 hr break/lunch).
Many years ago I worked for a small family-owned auto shop as a parts runner/helper. The mechanics there wrote down the start time and the finish time for each job they were assigned. The customer was only billed for the actual time the mechanic was in contact with their vehicle. I am afraid that honesty/fairness such as this is completely gone in the past...
#14
11-08-2006, 06:09 PM
RE: Dealer TRICKED ME! READ THIS
You are all looking at it from a customers perspective.. If you look at it from the other end, the Mechanic HATES when the labor rate says 6 hours on a 10 hour job. Then who is getting ripped off? Both the customer and the mechanic are in the same position, so there should really be little argument on this subject. Unless you have worked at a dealership, keep your mouth closed when it comes to bad mouthing the dealerships. Most dealerships are paid by the company. For example, it is Daimler Chrystler that sets the flat rates for each job based on average time to perform a job. USUALLY it is not the dealership that makes up these labor times. Like I said above, if the mechanic only gets paid 6 hours on a ten hour job, then the mechanic gets ripped off. If the mechanic works for 4 hours on a 6 hour job, the customer gets ripped off, and if the mechanic works for 8 hours on a non-flat rate job and the shop rate is only 6 hours, then the dealership still has to pay the mechanic for the full 8 hours that he worked, while only getting reimbursed for 6 hours of labor from the company, in which case the dealership themselves are getting ripped off. It is all one giant viscous cycle, and the customer, mechanic, company, and the dealership are all in it together, so don't think you are the only one getting frustrated or ripped off.
#15
11-08-2006, 08:42 PM
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RE: Dealer TRICKED ME! READ THIS
ORIGINAL: BgBluRam
You are all looking at it from a customers perspective.. If you look at it from the other end, the Mechanic HATES when the labor rate says 6 hours on a 10 hour job. Then who is getting ripped off? Both the customer and the mechanic are in the same position, so there should really be little argument on this subject. Unless you have worked at a dealership, keep your mouth closed when it comes to bad mouthing the dealerships. Most dealerships are paid by the company. For example, it is Daimler Chrystler that sets the flat rates for each job based on average time to perform a job. USUALLY it is not the dealership that makes up these labor times. Like I said above, if the mechanic only gets paid 6 hours on a ten hour job, then the mechanic gets ripped off. If the mechanic works for 4 hours on a 6 hour job, the customer gets ripped off, and if the mechanic works for 8 hours on a non-flat rate job and the shop rate is only 6 hours, then the dealership still has to pay the mechanic for the full 8 hours that he worked, while only getting reimbursed for 6 hours of labor from the company, in which case the dealership themselves are getting ripped off. It is all one giant viscous cycle, and the customer, mechanic, company, and the dealership are all in it together, so don't think you are the only one getting frustrated or ripped off.
You are all looking at it from a customers perspective.. If you look at it from the other end, the Mechanic HATES when the labor rate says 6 hours on a 10 hour job. Then who is getting ripped off? Both the customer and the mechanic are in the same position, so there should really be little argument on this subject. Unless you have worked at a dealership, keep your mouth closed when it comes to bad mouthing the dealerships. Most dealerships are paid by the company. For example, it is Daimler Chrystler that sets the flat rates for each job based on average time to perform a job. USUALLY it is not the dealership that makes up these labor times. Like I said above, if the mechanic only gets paid 6 hours on a ten hour job, then the mechanic gets ripped off. If the mechanic works for 4 hours on a 6 hour job, the customer gets ripped off, and if the mechanic works for 8 hours on a non-flat rate job and the shop rate is only 6 hours, then the dealership still has to pay the mechanic for the full 8 hours that he worked, while only getting reimbursed for 6 hours of labor from the company, in which case the dealership themselves are getting ripped off. It is all one giant viscous cycle, and the customer, mechanic, company, and the dealership are all in it together, so don't think you are the only one getting frustrated or ripped off.
#16
11-08-2006, 08:58 PM
RE: Dealer TRICKED ME! READ THIS
ORIGINAL: BgBluRam
You are all looking at it from a customers perspective..
You are all looking at it from a customers perspective..
OK, Yes I / We are looking at it from a customers stand point as we all should. Why? Becouse regardless of wich side your on (customer or in this case mech.)
Unless you have worked at a dealership, keep your mouth closed
Now again regardless of what we do for a living (mech, bagger, rocket scientist, whatever) we as workers are given time tables by someone else who prob.
1. never done the job or
2. thinks the job can be done quicker to save money.
it is Daimler Chrystler that sets the flat rates for each job based on average time to perform a job.
if the mechanic only gets paid 6 hours on a ten hour job, then the mechanic gets ripped off.
What I do see is that we all get screwed becouse of those few (seems like the majority now a days [:@]) of people who just show up to get paid and could care less about you or me being late for work couse he's fartin around on the job. Again this is everywhere you go not just DC.
So again if I stepped on any toes Wah! You shouldnt take it so personally (unless your one of those fartin around the shop then please do) but tommorrow take a look around the shop and 10-1 youll be workin harder than someone else (I'll bet at least 1 person comes to mind already) and its those people that screw it up for us all.
#17
11-08-2006, 10:15 PM
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RE: Dealer TRICKED ME! READ THIS
BlkRam, heres something I bet you didn't know. Next to nurses, auto technicians are the most needed professionals in the American industry right now. Wanna know why? The people "farting" around are getting let go and replaced by people who know their stuff and work hard. My auto teacher used a fictional character named "Billy" to describe this, Billy was your son and he always was needing new shoes, or clothes or food. He used to ask us how would we explain to him that you can't get him that stuff because you didn't turn enough hours in the shop. I am sorry if you get a worthless, slow tech working on your vehicle. They are out there as with any other profession. The good thing about flag hours is, those who don't work don't get paid.
As far as looking at things from a customer standpoint, we would need a whole other forum to discuss this. Auto service prices have gone up as with everything else in this country, end of story.
Your comment about not seeing someone getting screwed over by the labor book couldn't be anymore wrong. Dealership techs have it way worse than independent techs. For those of you that have not seen a labor book there are usually three times for each job, dealer, standard and severe service. The dealer rate is always considerably less than what the standard rate is and severe service is usually a few tenths higher. Heres an example there is a dealership around where I am from that pays tech 1 tenth to replace a serpentine belt, regardless what it is on. At 60 bucks an hour that is 6 bucks. Some of these cars you have to remove motor mounts and other things to replace these belts, no way they can be done in 1 tenth. Still think the customer is the only one getting ripped off?
As far as looking at things from a customer standpoint, we would need a whole other forum to discuss this. Auto service prices have gone up as with everything else in this country, end of story.
Your comment about not seeing someone getting screwed over by the labor book couldn't be anymore wrong. Dealership techs have it way worse than independent techs. For those of you that have not seen a labor book there are usually three times for each job, dealer, standard and severe service. The dealer rate is always considerably less than what the standard rate is and severe service is usually a few tenths higher. Heres an example there is a dealership around where I am from that pays tech 1 tenth to replace a serpentine belt, regardless what it is on. At 60 bucks an hour that is 6 bucks. Some of these cars you have to remove motor mounts and other things to replace these belts, no way they can be done in 1 tenth. Still think the customer is the only one getting ripped off?
#18
11-09-2006, 12:34 AM
#19
11-09-2006, 11:19 AM
RE: Dealer TRICKED ME! READ THIS
wow look at what i have dont... hehe [&:] geeze. To me my main dissappointment guys why i created this posting is im upset seriously i spent 24 thousand dollars on my truck, ive had cars before that i drove the crap out of and , the things that are going wrong with this 2002 new truck is ridiculous which never happened on my cars. look at it Gas cap mil error ... WTF... common there $22.99 gone why? i opened the old one up inside the one piece of metal in the middle corroded with rust... couldnt they have used galvanized metal in the first place....?
and now this no heat on left heat on right and the mechanic trying to scare me that the windows will fog and i need to change it right away no no no the windows arent foggging!! its -4 degrees for the past week its not fogging.
still doesnt make sense to me though still :
Driver floor vent COLD
Driver Face vent x2 COLD
Driver Mixed floor and face COLD
Driver Floor and fefrost COLD
Driver Defrost NORMAL
Passenger Floor vent NORMAL
passenger face vent x 3 Normal
etc Normal
etc NORMAL
etc NORMAL
Still why did the mechanic take out that 1 screw to take out the radio part of the dash>??? what was he able to acess from behind there???
can u guys tell me where that thing is to unplug the airbags i wanna pry out the radio part of the dash
also is that all i have to do is unplug or also disconnect battery?
thanks
and now this no heat on left heat on right and the mechanic trying to scare me that the windows will fog and i need to change it right away no no no the windows arent foggging!! its -4 degrees for the past week its not fogging.
still doesnt make sense to me though still :
Driver floor vent COLD
Driver Face vent x2 COLD
Driver Mixed floor and face COLD
Driver Floor and fefrost COLD
Driver Defrost NORMAL
Passenger Floor vent NORMAL
passenger face vent x 3 Normal
etc Normal
etc NORMAL
etc NORMAL
Still why did the mechanic take out that 1 screw to take out the radio part of the dash>??? what was he able to acess from behind there???
can u guys tell me where that thing is to unplug the airbags i wanna pry out the radio part of the dash
also is that all i have to do is unplug or also disconnect battery?
thanks
#20
11-09-2006, 09:52 PM
RE: Dealer TRICKED ME! READ THIS
ORIGINAL: silverram99
BlkRam, heres something I bet you didn't know. Next to nurses, auto technicians are the most needed professionals in the American industry right now. Wanna know why? The people "farting" around are getting let go and replaced by people who know their stuff and work hard. My auto teacher used a fictional character named "Billy" to describe this, Billy was your son and he always was needing new shoes, or clothes or food. He used to ask us how would we explain to him that you can't get him that stuff because you didn't turn enough hours in the shop. I am sorry if you get a worthless, slow tech working on your vehicle. They are out there as with any other profession. The good thing about flag hours is, those who don't work don't get paid.
As far as looking at things from a customer standpoint, we would need a whole other forum to discuss this. Auto service prices have gone up as with everything else in this country, end of story.
Your comment about not seeing someone getting screwed over by the labor book couldn't be anymore wrong. Dealership techs have it way worse than independent techs. For those of you that have not seen a labor book there are usually three times for each job, dealer, standard and severe service. The dealer rate is always considerably less than what the standard rate is and severe service is usually a few tenths higher. Heres an example there is a dealership around where I am from that pays tech 1 tenth to replace a serpentine belt, regardless what it is on. At 60 bucks an hour that is 6 bucks. Some of these cars you have to remove motor mounts and other things to replace these belts, no way they can be done in 1 tenth. Still think the customer is the only one getting ripped off?
BlkRam, heres something I bet you didn't know. Next to nurses, auto technicians are the most needed professionals in the American industry right now. Wanna know why? The people "farting" around are getting let go and replaced by people who know their stuff and work hard. My auto teacher used a fictional character named "Billy" to describe this, Billy was your son and he always was needing new shoes, or clothes or food. He used to ask us how would we explain to him that you can't get him that stuff because you didn't turn enough hours in the shop. I am sorry if you get a worthless, slow tech working on your vehicle. They are out there as with any other profession. The good thing about flag hours is, those who don't work don't get paid.
As far as looking at things from a customer standpoint, we would need a whole other forum to discuss this. Auto service prices have gone up as with everything else in this country, end of story.
Your comment about not seeing someone getting screwed over by the labor book couldn't be anymore wrong. Dealership techs have it way worse than independent techs. For those of you that have not seen a labor book there are usually three times for each job, dealer, standard and severe service. The dealer rate is always considerably less than what the standard rate is and severe service is usually a few tenths higher. Heres an example there is a dealership around where I am from that pays tech 1 tenth to replace a serpentine belt, regardless what it is on. At 60 bucks an hour that is 6 bucks. Some of these cars you have to remove motor mounts and other things to replace these belts, no way they can be done in 1 tenth. Still think the customer is the only one getting ripped off?