ESP Discussion.
Record Breaker
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Hawaii
So, I reread the owners manual. It says the when ESP is partially off, the traction control is on the same as when ESP is on. So, the slipping wheel will have the brake applied to try and put more torque on the other wheel.
I guess it wasn't traction, it was the traction control.
I have an idea about how to disable the ESP without disabling the ABS at the same time. The front axle has a module that sends a signal, as in a voltage, to the PCM when it is engaged. The transfer case uses a variable voltage to tell the PCM which gear it is in. So, if we find out the voltage of 4H and splice it in, as well as using the correct voltage spliced in for the front, we may be able to trick the truck into thinking it is in 4x4 when it is not. When in 4x4, we can fully disable ESP. The only problem is the PCM goes through a process to engage 4x4. My idea may not work if the process is not completed by the PCM and all of the sudden it gets a signal from the front axle and transfer case that the truck is in 4x4. Does that make any sense to anyone else? I am still in the service manual trying to figure something out.
I guess it wasn't traction, it was the traction control.
I have an idea about how to disable the ESP without disabling the ABS at the same time. The front axle has a module that sends a signal, as in a voltage, to the PCM when it is engaged. The transfer case uses a variable voltage to tell the PCM which gear it is in. So, if we find out the voltage of 4H and splice it in, as well as using the correct voltage spliced in for the front, we may be able to trick the truck into thinking it is in 4x4 when it is not. When in 4x4, we can fully disable ESP. The only problem is the PCM goes through a process to engage 4x4. My idea may not work if the process is not completed by the PCM and all of the sudden it gets a signal from the front axle and transfer case that the truck is in 4x4. Does that make any sense to anyone else? I am still in the service manual trying to figure something out.
I think you're heading in the right direction with this, you'd have to catch the voltage on the end of the circuit before it gets to the PCM. But in 4LO the engine RPM's rise as well, and if you trick the PCM into 4LO the engines RPM's might rise as well. Tricking the vehicle into always thinking it's in 4hi and then manually holding down the ESP button could return better results....
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Record Breaker
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Virginia Beach
I think you're heading in the right direction with this, you'd have to catch the voltage on the end of the circuit before it gets to the PCM. But in 4LO the engine RPM's rise as well, and if you trick the PCM into 4LO the engines RPM's might rise as well. Tricking the vehicle into always thinking it's in 4hi and then manually holding down the ESP button could return better results....
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: NW Arkansas
Well, maybe, but probably not. The older Rams have torque management and do not have any problems roasting tires. Again, I am not looking to roast my tires, but I should be able to do it.
Read the owners manual section on traction control. It says that traction control is always on unless ESP is fully off, not just partially off. ESP is not a traction control, it is a stability control. It will prevent oversteer and understeer. Traction control and the wheels spinning is not a function of ESP, it is a function of the traction control.
The traction control applies the brake to the spinning wheels. Applying the brakes to any wheel will inhibit forward motion.
Read the owners manual section on traction control. It says that traction control is always on unless ESP is fully off, not just partially off. ESP is not a traction control, it is a stability control. It will prevent oversteer and understeer. Traction control and the wheels spinning is not a function of ESP, it is a function of the traction control.
The traction control applies the brake to the spinning wheels. Applying the brakes to any wheel will inhibit forward motion.
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Record Breaker
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Virginia Beach
I am pretty sure people can run the truck on a dyno because the rear wheels are spinning at the same speed and traction control does not sense any slipping.
Last edited by sarguy01; Sep 22, 2009 at 10:42 AM.
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From: NW Arkansas
Which the LSD in the 3.92 does also. I'm not following how you think ESP is limiting your acceleration. Please go into more detail. Is your ESP blinking on the dash as you're accelerating?
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From: NW Arkansas
The traction control is one of many features of ESP. When you limit the ESP (by pushing the ESP Off button) you are disabling everything except the traction control. If you have the 3.92 with LSD you might as well call it fully disabled unless your LSD is not functioning properly.
Please tell me you didn't buy a four wheel drive without the LSD.
It is possible that the traction control would apply the brake to the spinning tire and "limit" your acceleration but you won't magically gain traction by disabling the traction control. In fact, that will hurt it more as you do your "Peg leg" burnout down the road trying to accelerate.
Please tell me you didn't buy a four wheel drive without the LSD.
It is possible that the traction control would apply the brake to the spinning tire and "limit" your acceleration but you won't magically gain traction by disabling the traction control. In fact, that will hurt it more as you do your "Peg leg" burnout down the road trying to accelerate.
Amateur
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: Kansas City, Mo Area
ran jr, I agree that TCS is a part of ESP but when you press the ESP off button it enters the partial mode as quoted from the oweners manual:
When in Partial Off mode, the TCS portion of ESP, except for the “limited slip” feature described in the TCS section, has been disabled and the _ESP/TCS Indicator Light_ will be illuminated. All other stability features of ESP function normally.
It also stated that some features function normally but are desensitized.
It would be nice to have the truck fully disable ESP because in Partial mode if the truck starts to slide side ways very much on very quick the ESP WILL step in to "regain" control for you.
I agree as long as you are running straight or on a dyno and you are not slipping a tire the only thing that will limit your acceleration would be the torque management system on these trucks.
Please if I am wrong someone correct me.
When in Partial Off mode, the TCS portion of ESP, except for the “limited slip” feature described in the TCS section, has been disabled and the _ESP/TCS Indicator Light_ will be illuminated. All other stability features of ESP function normally.
It also stated that some features function normally but are desensitized.
It would be nice to have the truck fully disable ESP because in Partial mode if the truck starts to slide side ways very much on very quick the ESP WILL step in to "regain" control for you.
I agree as long as you are running straight or on a dyno and you are not slipping a tire the only thing that will limit your acceleration would be the torque management system on these trucks.
Please if I am wrong someone correct me.
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From: NW Arkansas
Start edit: But he did state in his original post that he was able to get sideways without interferance from the ESP. I haven't seen proof that it does as much as you think. End edit.
Last edited by ran jr; Sep 22, 2009 at 12:32 PM.
Amateur
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: Kansas City, Mo Area
With disabling the ESP more that Partcial I personally don't see a benefit as far as acceleration. I agree that you can get the truck sideways a little like a foot or two as long as it does not jump quickly and you can fish tail as long as it is in a long sweeping motion but if you kick it side ways quickly it will engauge the ESP per every time that I have kicked the truck sideways on wet road.