Limited Slip Update
Champion
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,563
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From: Ontario, Canada
There is a big difference between LSD - which ensures that there is only a limited difference in the rotational speed and power being delivered to both wheels on the axle - and ESP (or actually DTC - Dynamic Traction Control) - which is essentially dragging the brake to limit the free-spinning wheel and putting the engine and the brake in opposition until/unless the open-diff starts delivering some power to the opposite wheel.
There was a thread posted last year that referenced videos posted by one of the truck testing magazines, which tested all current year models on obstacles including a specially setup hill that had a teflon slick surface under one wheel and dry asphalt under the other to highlight how most ESP/Traction Control systems left the trucks unable to climb off that moderate hill.
Electronic Traction Control systems are designed for light duty situations - rain-slicked roads or a first few inches of snow. The Engineers expect that most suburban truck owners (and most vehicles in general) will be waiting for the snow plow, or otherwise not push the envelope much beyond what brake-based Traction Control can handle. But for those who regularly face more - pulling a boat up a wet boat ramp or tackling long climbs of heavily washboarded gravel roads or facing unplowed private or farm roads - there is a big difference between a pair of power-driven wheels and a system that drags the brake or reduces engine power or both.
There was a thread posted last year that referenced videos posted by one of the truck testing magazines, which tested all current year models on obstacles including a specially setup hill that had a teflon slick surface under one wheel and dry asphalt under the other to highlight how most ESP/Traction Control systems left the trucks unable to climb off that moderate hill.
Electronic Traction Control systems are designed for light duty situations - rain-slicked roads or a first few inches of snow. The Engineers expect that most suburban truck owners (and most vehicles in general) will be waiting for the snow plow, or otherwise not push the envelope much beyond what brake-based Traction Control can handle. But for those who regularly face more - pulling a boat up a wet boat ramp or tackling long climbs of heavily washboarded gravel roads or facing unplowed private or farm roads - there is a big difference between a pair of power-driven wheels and a system that drags the brake or reduces engine power or both.
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 370
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That's what I found with my old Chevelle.
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
From: BC, Canada
the ESP system in these trucks SUCK ! ! ! by far the biggest complain. hated the damn thing on winter roads in the deep snow and doesnt do as well in mud. wish i lived in the south where people drive to a beach or dont see snow.
Champion
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,497
Likes: 1
From: MN
Seems like people in the south have been most of the ones who are convinced that they need an LSD.
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Amateur
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Northeast Nevada
Well here is an update, the dealer GM pretty much called me a liar and that his sales staff told me it had a open diff. Too bad my wife heard me ask the questions and the answer I received from the salesmen was yes, it had limited slip. The best they could do is for me is to pay $800.00 to purchase & install the Dodge limited slip with a full factory warranty. I said I would pay for the original sticker price of the 3.92 limited slip (was it $275), and he laughed. So, I guess we are at an impasse.
Interesting thing about this dealer, the same sales staff sold my step-daughter and her husband a Ram 1500 double cab and when they bought it, it did not have remote keyless entry, whci they wanted. Dealer said to come back in 2 weeks and the fob would come in and install it. Well, they went to the dealer 2 weeks later to find out it cannot be done on the truck they bought and they would have to go aftermarket. So now the dealer won't pay for it or install it after they made the commitment.
I am not sure if this meets the forum rules, but if the site moderators allow, PM me and I will tell you the name of this dealer in Southwest Idaho so you can avoid them. If you do use them make sure you do your research as a couple people have been mislead.
Dave
Interesting thing about this dealer, the same sales staff sold my step-daughter and her husband a Ram 1500 double cab and when they bought it, it did not have remote keyless entry, whci they wanted. Dealer said to come back in 2 weeks and the fob would come in and install it. Well, they went to the dealer 2 weeks later to find out it cannot be done on the truck they bought and they would have to go aftermarket. So now the dealer won't pay for it or install it after they made the commitment.
I am not sure if this meets the forum rules, but if the site moderators allow, PM me and I will tell you the name of this dealer in Southwest Idaho so you can avoid them. If you do use them make sure you do your research as a couple people have been mislead.
Dave
Captain
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 544
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did you step daughter and her husband get it in writing? if it ain't in writing it ain't really binding. when you are talking stuff that they owe you after the sale.
well all i can say is 800 is a good price for it. with the full warranty. so that maybe better then nothing
well all i can say is 800 is a good price for it. with the full warranty. so that maybe better then nothing
Last edited by plumcrazy73; May 15, 2010 at 12:04 AM.
Thread Starter
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Amateur
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Northeast Nevada
The sales associate went to the parts counter with them to order it. The dealer never called and said they couldn't order the part for their specific truck. They drove 200 miles to find out it couldn't be done and the dealer was pretty unhelpful at that point.
Professional
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 205
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The ESP serves multiple purposes;
1) stability control/trailer sway
2) traction control
3) electronic "LSD"
Your truck was doing exactly what #2 implies, cutting power when it detects that all four wheels are not turning a the same speed. BUT when you turn it "off" #3 is still active and it limits #1 & #2.
When you say 'tore off down the street', how fast were you traveling? The ESP will come back on at any wheel speed over 30 or 40 mph if all four wheels are not reporting the same speed, and then cut power.
Your example is irrelevant because your LSD did nothing for you. You simply minimized the ESP which let you spin your tires enough to get free. My 3.55 open diff will and did do the same thing. I drove in foot deep snow with zero issues this winter. There were a few times where I turned "off" ESP to play around and guess what my truck would do every time I stomped on it?? It got sideways. If only one rear tire was spinning, it would have continued straight ahead spinning the one tire.
The only people that praise the LSD are those with it or those that don't understand how the ESP works. Like I said before, neither the LSD or ESP perform like a true locker, they both allow some wheel spin.
Does it hurt to have the LSD? No
Should it be a deal breaker? No
Would I trade in a truck that was exactly what I wanted only no LSD to get a truck that is similar to my current one but with an LSD? No
You'll end up paying enough taxes on the trade to fund a LSD install on your current truck.
1) stability control/trailer sway
2) traction control
3) electronic "LSD"
Your truck was doing exactly what #2 implies, cutting power when it detects that all four wheels are not turning a the same speed. BUT when you turn it "off" #3 is still active and it limits #1 & #2.
When you say 'tore off down the street', how fast were you traveling? The ESP will come back on at any wheel speed over 30 or 40 mph if all four wheels are not reporting the same speed, and then cut power.
Your example is irrelevant because your LSD did nothing for you. You simply minimized the ESP which let you spin your tires enough to get free. My 3.55 open diff will and did do the same thing. I drove in foot deep snow with zero issues this winter. There were a few times where I turned "off" ESP to play around and guess what my truck would do every time I stomped on it?? It got sideways. If only one rear tire was spinning, it would have continued straight ahead spinning the one tire.
The only people that praise the LSD are those with it or those that don't understand how the ESP works. Like I said before, neither the LSD or ESP perform like a true locker, they both allow some wheel spin.
Does it hurt to have the LSD? No
Should it be a deal breaker? No
Would I trade in a truck that was exactly what I wanted only no LSD to get a truck that is similar to my current one but with an LSD? No
You'll end up paying enough taxes on the trade to fund a LSD install on your current truck.
ESP On = truck stuck going knowhere
ESP Off = truck 4x4'd right on out of there
LSD = better than no LSD
Professional
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 205
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I'm sure there is some panic situation, rain soaked road or whatever where ESP might save my *** so I'm glad its there and I leave it on but I'm glad I can turn it off.
Record Breaker
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,564
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From: Austin/Round Rock, TX
I just want to say that if you trade in a 42,000 truck for a 45,000 truck, you only have to pay sales tax on the difference, or $3,000. At least that's the way it is in Texas.