Cliffs? Jesus Christ

How do you figure that? Bling and add-ons are never ending to both cars. Performance wise you can do WAY more to the Viper. With the strained V8 Vette, there's a limit. That's why the Viper holds its spot for the fastest production car in the world with some add on mods. What was it? 0-60 in 2.9 seconds? So much for that idea.


-Matt-

 

right...because ford cant put together a motor that makes any real power without forced induction...the z06 is faster, for now...

numbers from a few different sources...
2003 Dodge Viper SRT-10 3.9 11.7
2004 Dodge Viper SRT-10 3.9 11.77
2003 Dodge Viper SRT-10 4.0 12.00 (est) - C&D

2005 Ford GT 3.6 11.78
2005 Ford GT 3.3 11.60
2005 Ford GT 3.5 11.80 - C&D

the GT is geared better for the quarter mile, and they spent ages developing the drivetrain...it should be faster..but according to the two 1/4 sites that i know of, its very close, if not faster, and it seems to be a drivers race...also, according to C&D, the viper weighs 3400lbs, and the GT weighs 3350...

the base price of the viper is around 80 grand...the base price of the GT (if you can get one at base price without the huge dealer markup) is around 143-150 grand..."nuff said"...

for that price there is simply no point in compring the GT to the viper...thats like saying how much faster an srt10 ram is then my stratus...it costs almost twice as much, and as 150+K cars go, the GT is garbage. also, the GTs have had issues with literally falling apart...just like the dakotas, but the dakotas arent 150 grand "Supercars"...

but in the long run, say, 10 years..the new vette is Just another corvette...but the viper is a stand out car...and we have been over this before...the viper is a low end supercar...there is no watered down model with an automatic so the soccer moms can drive them to practice...

 

Go look up a Sledgehammer or Lingenfelter Corvette.....yeah...so much for that idea my ***....Also, I screwed up after re-reading that post. I meant to say that I could do more with the extra 20k to a Z06, then you could do spending that 85k on your stock Viper. Basically, I could make my Z06 faster with the extra 20k...

As for Pat's comment:

I took the weight numbers directly from both companies respected websites, so if the numbers are wrong, blame them. Dodge lists the Viper coupe at like 3340 I believe.

The GT is overpriced, a piece of sh*t, and I hate Fords. However, I was talking about the V8 really, not the car. The Saleen S7 is a supercar, yet they get it done with a V8. There are Ferrari's that use V8's.....and we're talkin $150,000-200,000 cars....so why bag on the V8?

Look, I'm not knocking on the Viper, but face facts....the Viper needs some SERIOUS work. If Chevy ever threw a s/c or turbo on the Corvette....Also, who cares if the Corvette comes in a stick or an auto. Once upon a time some of the greatest muscle cars came in an auto as well. If that's your only reason for baggin on the Vette....

Again, here's the knock on the V-10....it costs entirely too much...and they arent producing the kind of HP they should be. That we will all agree on. So why continue wasting money on an engine that's being caught up to by a V8? You either produce something that works or you stop doing it. Look at Lamborghini and Ferrari and Mercedes. They're using V12's.....and some of their sedan McClarens and AMG models will match, beat or come close to the Viper in speeds and quarter mile. Is that anything to brag about?

You are right, the Viper is a standout car....and yeah...its an awesome car....but in 10 years...who says it will still be being made? I know the Corvette will be.

I want the Viper that first came out, dominating and untouchable. I just dont know that Dodge can build it for less then 100k.

 

eh..i honestly couldnt care any less if they keep making them...

the hemicuda was only made for a few years...does that make it less prominent?

and i really dont get into the "with this much money i could have ____"...the mirada has about 5 grand in it, altogether, and it will keep pace with a 1st gen viper, and with a less than pro driver, it will give a new viper one hell of a run, as i have seen a few of them spinning their way to low-mid 12s...and about the V10/V12 versus V8 arguement...there are evos putting out 700+ whp...engine size is a bad determining factor for discussion since the japanese companies make similar power with 4 and 6 cylinders...
and if dodge would get off their high horse dfor a second and recognize that the common man cant afford a viper, and doesnt care that it has a V10 as long as its fast, they could easily build a viper to compete with the vette, with a V8, for under 100,000...

figure this..the 6.1L hemi makes an advertised 425hp, but has been dyno tested to make around 460 at the crank...the 6.4L makes (i believe) 505hp...the same at the SRT10...the cars currently equipped with the 425hp hemi range from high 30s to low 40s...those cars have proven to be, on average, about a second slower than the srt10 viper, for about half of the cost. now, tack on another 80hp..and reduce the weight to equal the weight of the viper...this estimation is from race-cars.net
now, cut to 3300lbs...and take into consideration how low the stock hp of the 6.1L is...and if we assume even a SLIGHT under rating of the 6.$L...its fair to say that 516bhp is not impossible...
now, say that you charged 20,000 more for a lightened up LX platform with the 6.4L...you have yourself a car that will now keep pace with the viper, and the GT, for 60,000...i cant find a price on the 6.4L, but there was a 70 challenger at the NAIAS with the 6.4L in it...i know that its out there...and i dont think that it costs 20,000...and there are ways to lighten up the LX models...but just by putting the full LX drivetrain in the viper, it woudl cut the cost of the viper, without compromising much, if any, performance...but that would make all the snotty viper owners cry...because then "poor folks" (who actually know what the viper is built for) could afford them.

 

Every Corvette lover should thank Dodge from Dawn 'till dusk for the Viper. In 1991 the Corvette’s base engine made a whopping 245 horsepower, no much more than the V-6 in my pickup makes; the top-of the line Corvette had what 345 horse? TOP OF TH E LINE!!???? Had there been no viper the Vette would be half the car it is today.

BTW I’m sure this has been hashed over and over, but notice how much the new ‘Vette looks like the Viper. The vette stopped making pop-up headlights, they look more like the Vipers, hood scoop like the viper, mouth opening like the viper, side vent like the viper. Which begs the question, why buy the Corvette when you can just buy the Car it was designed after?

 

Umm go look it up...but the current model Viper is imitating the Corvette now.....so who's imitating who? They have a lot of similarities, but the Corvette was already going that route before the Viper was built. And if you look at a 2nd gen Viper...you'll see a striking change to resembling the Corvette. Granted, some of the Corvette's design I'm sure came from the Viper as they modified it year in and year out. The Z06 Vette comes with a hood scoop, but its the top model in its class. All popular competing cars eventually steal ideas from one another. Hood scoops, specific lights, ride heights, even engine sizes.

Also, at the time that the Viper came out, there werent very many cars being made that really pushed even the 300hp mark BESIDES the Corvette. At least at that time in the USA due to all the issues with gasoline and efficiency from the late 70's early 80's. So to use that as an excuse or a reason is just preposterous. Also, the Viper had to use the V10 to get to that mark. The Corvette has kept the V8.

One last note, the very first car I think outside of American built cars to crack the 250hp range was the Stealth/3000GT I do believe. I could be wrong...but there werent very many cars being built at that time STOCK that came in that range.

 

Not sure what styling cues the Viper has that copies the Corvette, so I'll bite...how is it copying the corvette?

The side flares behind the front fenders that the Corvette adopted after the Viper brought it out? Not pop up headlights, open "mouth" ...twin bubble roof look? I think almost all styling cues for the Vetter come from the Viper. The Viper did take major styling cues from other sources (Cobra) but clearly, NOT the Vette...





I agree, and that is my point. There was nothing there to push the Corvette forward. There was noting like it, nothing close. The Viper so dominated it in the first Generation that Chevy had to do a major renovation to bring it back to where it was competitive to the viper; and to Chevy's credit, they've out-vipered the viper now.

I think It is really up to Chrysler to decide if they want to dominate this segment or not. Their car is somethign to behold, but it's not the class leader, and certainly not the class leader it once was...

 

[/quote]

Now, as far as the 1st gen Viper goes, I'll give you that the Corvette saw what people liked, and made some changes to the then Z04 and then the Z05's. However, by the time Dodge brought out the 2nd Gen Viper, you could see it had copied some of the Corvette's lines....it smoothed out some, it developed a little bit more of a rear end, and it started to round out a little more. By the current model, the Viper has started to look identical to the Corvette in some respects. The current model and the previous model Corvette was also out before the last 2 changes on the Viper.....so do you say its a complete rip-off? No. It borrowed some ideas and it used them.

Here's an 02 C5 Corvette.....and an 02 Viper....this is where they still pretty much different to a point...and you can already see where the Corvette is going design wise to the current 06 model. The ground work is already there. The Viper was RE-Designed in 2003. Also, the 05 Corvette was the first Vette in like 2 decades to not use the flip style lights. Several other cars had already gone to the new lighting that the Viper used long before the Vette did. In fact, the flip style lighting was done away with on every car in GM's lineup.

[IMG]local://upfiles/19085/AEFF6D07BB034592BE0F5940940B0202.jpg[/IMG]

Then you have the 05 Corvette & 06 C6 Corvette....and the 05/06 Viper......now if you look at the 02 Corvette...and then look at the 06 Corvette...you can see a similar body style....but the Vipers totally redesigned from 02-06....

[IMG]local://upfiles/19085/89CAC17014AA44F881126A3DC2EF146A.jpg[/IMG]

 

one question, HP?

 

There's no reason to compare the GTS model to the new Z06, neither look the same. It's definately the styling of the new Z06 Chevy, which stole cues from the SRT model in 2002.

There's nothing wrong at all with a V10, it's an American icon of the Viper engine, but I agree with you Dodge does need to add some horsepower. Chevy's corvette is able to catch up for 3 reasons, drag, gear ratio and weight. It wouldn't be a match if engineers would do their job.

First off Mercedes makes an entirely different car then the Viper. It's meant more toward luxury and intricate electronics, things that don't show up in normal cars for years to come. The body and platform are meant to provide a person with the ultimate luxury experience. The Viper however was built for its raw performance, engine, platform etc. If Mercedes really wanted to destroy Ferrari's/Vipers with their V12's, they easily could.



-Matt-