You are comparing an SUV to a large sedan. It's apples and oranges. Two totally different vehicles, with two totally different purposes. Actually, the Charger, as of next year does come in AWD, FYI. And actually, the Charger, as a large family sedan probably fits people just as comfortably. Again though. They serve two different purposes. The comparison doesn't make any sense. Like I said before, the Charger won "Best car for Families" from AAA. That says somethign there. That say's it does serve a mojor purpose. Not everyone needs to tow things, and cars aren't supposed to tow anyway.


Again, with your "no real purpose" thing. Apparently, you don't understand the concept of a fast vehicle with the capabilities of a sedan. People like different things. Because it's "completely stupid" to you, doesn't mean it's the same for, let's say a father of 3 with a wife, who needs a car to fit his family, but would like some raw power...


First of all, the Escape WILL lose to the HEMI Charger. Just to get that out of the way. Again thought, you're comparing apples to oranges, once again. AUV to large sedan. They serve two completely different purposes.


Not every person whines about gas milage. I personaly don't. I could care less. Again, this is your opinion. Like I said above. It appeals to other people.

I should copy and paste a previous reply here, but you can just look above to the second reply.


I highly doubt that more Focus' sold than Neons. Just look around on the road and you'll get your answer.

Once again, it's your opinion on what purpose these vehicles serve. Just because a faimly sedan won;t a tow a boat, doesn't mean it isn't fulfilling it's ability. It's not meant to tow.


Never did I say a bigger engine made it a better car. But MPG is not everything.

Never did I say that a car needs 425 hp... The Charger SE/SXt fits what you just described...

The Charger SRT-8 is NOT supposed to be this. The Charger SRT-8 is a large family sedan, Capable a putting plently of stuff in the trunk. Seating your wife and kids. And giving you some raw power, for that racer inside you. It's not supposed to appeal to everyone... one again, I say it... It appeals to certain people. Because a car doesn't meet all your wants a needs, doesn't mean it doesn't fit someone elses....

My lord... I have a headache...

 

You missed the entire point. I know the vehicles are different, I get it, my god its not a hard concept.

I also dont get why its so hard to get that what I am saying is that I dont understand why people would pay more for less.

You didnt seem to want to address the issues about what the vehicle is lacking compared to others, but the vehicle still costs more, just for a bigger engine.

Fine dont use an SUV, pick any other vehicle out there. Pick a Ford 500 AWD. Ok, its large, it can fit a family, it gets great mileage, it has AWD, it has EVERYTHING the Charger has, except maybe a few small sideline items. It costs about $10,000 less. Now I know, it isn’t much less, or maybe it isn’t any less, than a base charger, but that isn’t what we are talking here, we are talking SRT-8, so excuse my comparison on that point.

There, there is your Apple to Apple. Its a cheaper vehicle, has everything the Charger does except what I noted above and except the big engine. Why is that not good enough. You said different people have different needs, fine then, who NEEDS 425 HP. Answer that question instead of just repeating Apples to Oranges over and over.

You know what, people do whine about gas mileage. A lot of people. The whole damn country it seems like because anytime the price goes up it makes the news. If you drive a vehicle that gets 30+ MPG, it does not affect you much, but drive something that gets 15 MPG for awhile and get back with me. Especially if you are making the payment on that vehicle that cost you $40,000.

If I were to look around the roads, I would say that there are more Focuses on the road than Neon's, that was just a minor, super minor, part of my comparison, there were also the Toyota's and Honda's, as well as the slipping sales of Neons, just accept it, it was dead, even Chrysler says that. If its in print or not that doesnt matter, is it being sold anymore?

Huh, wonder what that could mean. I was right, its dead, move on.

Please explain to me the concept of a large sedan that has high performance ability's.

I would LOVE to hear it, I am all about expanding my knowledge of something. Please explain to my why I need a vehicle that can get me up to the speed limit quicker. Explain that to me, and all will be settled. Thats all I want, is for someone to finally tell me why its so important.

Is it so you can be cooler? Small ***** complex? What is it? Tell me someone! Maybe you want to... no I honestly cant think of ONE GOOD REASON why you would need a large family sedan with a 425 HP engine. You arent towing, you most likely arent taking it to the race track, and there are still speed limits and cops. There will still always be another car out there faster than yours. And you still look like the fool who spent $40,000 on a high performance family car.

Just supercharge your mini-van and get it over with.

Its just dumb, and unless you can tell me how it isnt with an actual example, something I have given you over and over, instead of just throwing out stupid analogies and coming back acting like "I" am the one that doesnt get it, then I dont see what the point of arguing is because you are yet to present an actual argument except to make broad generalizations and use a three word line to discount what I say.

This is getting to be way more out of line than I would like, but I have been hearing a lot about performance vehicles lately, and some I can understand, but the Charger I just cant. Due to price and ability, that is just one car, well one of a few, I just dont get how anyone can buy it.

The Miata actually fits that bill too. I had one for about a month. Sure it was fun to drive and could corner well, but I had no room for anything other than me, and I had a hard time fitting just me due to my height. But at least the miata has the excuse of being cheap and getting good mileage etc etc.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot you mentioned them bringing AWD to the Charger, if they do that then in will gain some points in the positive direction in my book. But that means more money I am sure and even worse gas mileage, you can keep saying that does not matter to you, but it just adds to the bloat of the vehicle.

Now AWD in the base SXT Charger or whatever would make that a very desireable vehicle. Good performance while maintaining Gas mileage, AWD, and seating.

Now that is a good combo.

 

I guess I did miss the point. Because you made it very hard to figure out what kind of point you were trying to make. Here we go:

Now that I know how you want me to reply. We can talk about the "Charger lacking" that you claim. You are, in fact, completely wrong about the Charger vs Five Hundred. Now we are speaking about related vehicles finally. The Five Hundred does not even match the Charger.

Charger Base: ....... $22,470 / 3.5L 250 hp V6 / MPG 19/27 / Rating: 9.2
Five Hundred SE: ... $22,230 / 3.0L 203 hp V6 / MPG 20/27 / Rating: 8.4

The Charger is obviously the better vehicle. For $240 more, you get 47 more hp with identical MPG. Also a better rating. Everything else is identical on these two. So that's all there is to compare. Charger comes out on top. More horses and better gas milage.

Now you say we are talking about the SRT-8... It's not the same thing... Some people want 425 hp... They don't need it. Some people would like to have it. I've explained this many times already. Why don't you just compare a Charger base to a Charger SRT-8. What's the difference? Some people would like to have a a large family sedan, that seats 5, holds plently in the trunk, has great room, but will still let them take off in a burst. It's not about comparison here. You keep trying to turn it into that. This is about preference and what people want. What makes them happy. Obviously, you wouldn't like it, good for you. Well, not everyone thinks like you... Wait... I just had a sense of dejavue (sp?).


I guess you weren't actually reading my post and comprehending it. Because this is not what I was doing...

If you are rich wealthy enough to spend 40K on a performance sedan. It's is OBVIOUS that gas milage does not effect you. IF you are worried about gas milage. DON'T BUY ONE... It's as simple as that... I'm like "WTF?" over here...

If I step outside my house right now, look at all the cars. It's a 3 to 1 ratio, Neon over Focus. My next door neighbor has the Focus. I have a Neon, two houses down has a Neon and accross the street, they have a Neon.


I don't know how we got on this. I agree that the poorly built built, underpowered Neon should be replaced, as it has been. All I said is that the Neon looks better than the Caliber. That's just my personal taste.

It's simple... It's a performance vehicle that can sit 5 people. Simple... Like the SRT-10 Ram is a performance vehicle that can haul and sit four people. Who said you aren't taking it to the race track. Wake up and check out other part's of this forum. People race them. It doesn't matter if there are other cars faster. Of course there will be. You just arent understanding the concept of speed and why people like to race I guess. The car is PERFECT for an older man with a wife and children, who want a car to carry them around in, but can still get up and go. It's really simple dude. SIMPLE...

Finally, these are YOUR preferences. Like I've said many times. It's your opinion. People like different things. Different things appeal to different people. I've gone over this many times. If you don't understand yet, then I don't know what to do with you buddy. Why not ask someone who OWNS a Charger SRT-8, instead of someone who owns a Neon. I suggest you venture into the Charger/Magnum SRT-8 section of this site. Ask them why they bought it and tell them they are fools for buying something, because YOU don't like it. I give up... I KNOW other people reading this understand what I'm saying... You can ask them to explain it in another 27 ways...

 

VulnoX i just noticed you lived in Livonia. where in Livonia. I'm in northville but i have ALOT of friends and family in Livonia. what dealership did u get it from?

as for the charger not selling they sold 11,862 in February. i see them everywhere **** i saw daytonas in both colors today on the road. plus i also see srt8 all over the place.

 

Ok this is stupid, I am not attacking you or anyone. I have said all along that I dont see the point of the vehicle. SO that implies that it is personal preference all along, I have just been looking for a good reason to have one.

I still am not really getting one. Ok fine, you cant answer the question, and you cant seem to accept that there is no real reason to get the car. There is no need to attack me for it, you are making this way too personal.

I have given you my reasons for thinking the car is not worth it, and have not really received any reasons why it is beyond that some old guy thinks he should have a car with more go power.

Fine, whatever, I dont care what other people do with their money. I wish there was a better way for me to say that this has gotten out of hand and all I wanted was a reason for the vehicle to exist.

And you saying it may be for racing doesnt work either, like I said anyone that races this, legally, would be racing at the dragstrip most likely, which is bracket racing, which means an Escort could beat an SRT-8 if he hit his E.T. and beat him at reaction time.

So I am just going to say I am sorry this had to get so out of hand, I never wanted this to be a battle, and I still think the car is completely useless (not the Charger, the SRT-8 version).

You and I are saying much the same thing, 95% of everything we are saying is really the same. You admit the car isnt for everyone, thats fine, you admit that my opinion, I admit that too.

The only thing we are really at odds about is gas mileage and why anyone would buy it. Also, the comparison that someone can afford a 40,000 car but not gas is stupid. Credit is a hell of a thing, it means you can make a payment on a vehicle over time when you dont have the money up front. But having to fill up a tank of gas more than once a week because your car has crappy gas mileage is usually a bigger hit.

I had my Explorer that had payments I had no trouble making, it was the hit I was taking due to constantly filling the thing up.

You just seem to keep attacking me for having an opinion, I dont expect everyone to follow it, all I have been looking for this whole time is a reason for anyone to buy the car, that is it, and you never seem to have a reason to give, just more insults and attacks.

So whatever, there is no reason, if you cant answer the question then I guess I can keep on thinking the car in SRT form has no good use except that someone with more money than brain power wants to be able to hit that speed limit one second faster than me.

Go them.

As for the Neon to Focus ratio, if I step outside my house right now, I see a 10 to 1 ratio of Ford's to anything else. But if I drive 10 miles East, there are more GM's than anything else.

What you see outside your house doesn't mean crap, thats a horrible example. I put 35,000 miles on my Ranger in a little over a year, so I do a good bit of driving, and I can tell you that from my experience over a majority of South-East michigan, that I see more Focus' than Neons. I know five people who go to my College that I see everyday that have focus', and know absolutely nobody with a Neon except the guy who sits next me at Federal Mogul. And it isnt even his, its his sons who bought it three years ago, used, so yeah going by that and what I have heard of the sales number of the focus I dont believe the Neon has been selling better.

 

I've explained it to you many times. In different ways. You just don't want to hear it. You shut it out. I haven't attacked you either. It's just that you are frustrating me a little bit, because you are not comprehending what i have said. You just keep taking things how you want to and shutting other things out. It hasn't gotten out of hand. The only person who is taking it that way, is you. Another example of you taking this in the wrong way.

Aside from what you might think. People like to go fast on highways too. I don't care if it's legal or not. People like to do it and that's all that matters. And no, not all drag racing at strips are bracket racing. What world are you living in?

I know I've said the same thing a couple times (not 95%, that's a complete exaggeration). But this is because my explanations are completely understandable and you seem like you can't comprehend it.

You also don't seem to understand the fact that if you are buying a performance vehicle, that is pushing out 425 hp, that runs the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds. Gas milage should not effect you. If you are worrying about gas milage. Do not buy the car. You don't buy a Viper and then go "Wait I hope gas milage is good on this thing". It's that simple. Simple, simple, simple...

Your explorer was not $40,000...

I have not attacked you, you are ust getting upset over nothing and taking things the wrong way and not comprehending what I have said. I have given you answers, you just aren't listening.

Like I said before, go into the SRT-8 section and ask these questions. They will tell you the same things and again, you will probably keep saying they aren't giving you answers. Go in there and tell them they don't have much brain power and they are fools for buying the car. I'll even create a thread for you.


About the Neon... It was just an exmaple. Why don't you look up Neon sales vs Focus sales, except for the last few months. You'll see which car sold more... There are WAY more Neons out there, than Focus'. You don't have to take it from me.

 

Bah, whatever.

I have not shut anything out, I have read and listened to everything you said. Trust me, I am a lot more open than maybe I am coming across.

I said I can accept that people buy what they want, I wanted a good reason for it. I guess it comes down to each persons idea of what is a good reason is dependent on that person. You cant keep saying that I dont get it just because I dont believe that those are good reasons. I am not alone in it either, I have talked to a lot of people about the Charger and get the same basic response that they dont see what use it would have either.

No, my Explorer was not $40,000, I never made that claim. But it was still pretty expensive, especially for a college student with a part time job, when you compare what I make to the cost of the explorer to what someone else who owns a Charger may make to what the Charger costs, the ratio is probably similar in many cases.

Credit is still credit. I know people that live in Northville that have these big $500,000 houses, not because they are rich, but because they are in hella debt. You think people with Escalades bought them all straight up? Just because you have an expensive vehicle does not mean you are rich, that is a simple concept isnt it...

I know not all drag strips are bracket racing, but every single NHRA and IHRA track I have been to that allows street racing is bracket. I have been to many of the tracks on the East coast, and NHRA runs in a bracket racing system. So yeah, I live in the real world, if thats answers your question. Now, NHRA top-fuel, stuff like that, no that isnt bracket racing usually, I am talking street racing, and if you have a 14 second car, you are in the street class.

I also said in my last post I get it about the gas mileage, the horse is dead.

I am not getting upset about anything, I honestly have seen your posts as the only one getting upset. You constantly talk about how your head hurts or whatever else, I can quote tons of those comments, I just asked a question why someone would want one, and I dont accept that because you want to is a good reason, it is a REASON, but not a good one.

That is like saying buying an F-250 Super Duty Turbo Diesel with the biggest trailer towing package is a good idea when you never plan on towing.

Also, what is with the expressway, going fast, etc etc comment? Can the Charger go that much faster than a Caliber or whatever else that costs half as much? Is it worth $40,000 to go down the expressway at 140?

I dunno man, I am not upset, I just wanted a good reason. You have given a couple reasons, someone wants it, they want it for the expressway, whatever, as REASONS, but those are not good solid reasons.

Good solid reasons mean there is a logical reason to have it. There is no logic in a $40,000 street car that goes faster than another car in a world of laws and consequences. Especially if its your primary vehicle.

NOW I still stand behind saying that if you have the money and get the Charger SRT as a second vehicle that you build up and have fun with, then good, toys are great!

Anyway, if you want we can just end this, me talking to a bunch of people who have the Charger doesnt make sense because they already bought it, and unless they can give me that one good logical reason, then it would just be a waste of time.

 

It has its upsides and downsides just like every other new car. Im just excited to see what the Calibers big defect will be on the new years.

 

Jeez...would you look at Chase and VulnoX go...


I personally like the Caliber, but I, in no sense of the word, hate or dislike the neon. I was going to get it as my first car before the Caliber was announced, and when it was, I was pissed and I hated it..

It's just bitter people that hate a car just because it replaces theirs that pisses me off.