I've owned my (used) 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan ES for a bunch of years, and
have always felt too sleepy at the wheel, when driving at night.

I now suspect that I may have had both a low level carbon monoxide leak,
and something else (fumes) that I still don't know what it is, coming in.


Then, about 2 weeks ago, while driving a long way, I suddenly felt like
I was going to faint several times (while driving!), & had a headache,
so I soon went to a muffler guy in Lakewood, CO to see if I had a bad muffler.
(I wondered if I was getting carbon monoxide/"CO" from exhaust fumes,
from a bad muffler).


He said my muffler was fine. However, he did see a big gap (space)
in the seal on the right side of the hatch back door. He sent me to a body work guy,
who confirmed that air (& probably lots of exhaust fumes) were being sucked into
the cabin, thru the gap in the door seal, so he re-positioned the hatchback door
to make the seal work, and I also had a tail pipe extension put on.


After that repair, I wasn't feeling like I would "faint", while driving, but,
I still felt that "something" bad was getting into the air, and it was
making me feel lightheaded, spacey, face & lips a bit tingly.


I NEVER get these symptoms when driving my husband's vehicles!
(an Astrovan & a car). I feel totally clear-headed when I'm in either one of his
2 vehicles! So I know that something is not right about the air in my minivan!


Trying to get answers, a few days ago, I went to our local Fire Department,
where one of their guys drove with me, up & down hills, trying various combinations
of windows open & closed, fresh vs. recycled air, etc. etc., using their sensitive CO
(Carbon Monoxide) meter. It showed no signs of "CO" leaking into the minivan.

--------------


I feel WORSE (spacey, face & lips tingly, feeling not right) when:


--accelerating hard, driving uphill while giving it gas, when windows are closed,
when fan is off (when windows closed), when I'm on "fresh air", & when heater is on.

Fan sometimes makes a little noise, as if something is sometimes interfering
with blades turning. (a dead creature in there, decomposing??)


--------------


I feel a little more clear-headed (A LITTLE BETTER) when:


--coasting down a steep hill while in "drive" gear (foot off gas pedal), &
I must now keep both front windows open (driver's side about 1/3 of the way open,
& passenger side window open a couple of inches) to get fresh air in.

I feel better when fan is "off" (only when windows are open), and I feel better
when I'm in "recycle air" mode (compared with "fresh air" mode) when fan is on,
and I feel better when heater is off (on cold setting), or at least not too hot.


Air conditioning "on", seems to help a lot, to clear my head.


----------------------


My 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan ES minivan has been leaking &/or burning oil
for quite a while. I have over 200,000 miles on this minivan, but I can't afford
a newer one at this time. There is a bunch of old oil (mixed with dirt) visible
on the engine, --I will get the under-the-hood areas steam-cleaned
as much as possible, to see if this helps or hurts.

-----------------------

Has anyone else had any similar kind of "fumes" problem?

What kinds of fumes could possibly be leaking into the cabin
(and how are the fumes getting in?), causing carbon monoxide-like
symptoms, yet is probably not carbon monoxide?


The air conditioning works fine.


I don't smell any fresh gasoline.


I do smell "something" when heat is on, but I don't know what that smell is.
My husband smelled "something" too, when the heater is on, but he also
doesn't know what the smell is.


I don't see any film on the inside of windshield (got a new windshield recently--
but this fume problem began well before the new windshield was put in),
so I don't think it's freon from the air conditioner &
I don't think it's an antifreeze leak (but I'm not a mechanic, so who knows...).


I'm getting possible common leaks checked (tranny fluid, oil leaks,
power steering fluid, power brake fluid) by our local mechanic.


Do any of you folks have any ideas about more possible types of fumes
that could be getting into the cabin?


Who in the Denver area could help to figure out what's happening,
without making me go broke?


Can anyone recommend any experts in the Denver/Boulder area,
who could test the cabin air to see what's coming into the cabin,
that shouldn't be coming in there?


Thanks in advance for ideas & advice!


Carol in Colorado
cell: 970-531-5000
fsds@rkymtnhi.com

 

Welcome to DF
If the fire department doesn't pick a co reading, Its not uncommon to have a dead rodent laying up in the heater box assy. The sound you maybe hearing from the blower motor, could be the cage. Something maybe throwing the cage off balance.

 

Dear Master Tech,

I had done a lot of "googling", and finally discovered that
the state of Colorado has a free service, of analyzing causes
of carbon monoxide ("CO") getting into the cabin
(from exhaust fumes or from under the hood in the engine
compartment) at their Emissions Technical Centers.
I made an appointment, and went to one of those centers,
where the Supervisor of all the technicians was working,
yesterday.

He worked for quite a while with his helper, to analyze
what was going on with my 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan ES.
At every step of the way, they showed me what they were
finding! :-)

They blew smoke into the exhaust system, while the minivan was
up on a hoist, and we all saw several places where the smoke
was pouring (gushing) out of HOLES in both the forward and rear
mufflers, and also we saw where the smoke was coming out
of an incompletely done weld, where a muffler place had previously
tried to put a tailpipe extension onto my tailpipe!

So, the first thing they found, is that I had several places where
exhaust fumes were spewing out, underneith my minivan,
spewing out of holes (leaking out, where these exhaust fumes
shouldn't have been leaking out).

Then, the supervisor & helper looked CAREFULLY at the (?rubber) seal
around the back, where the hatchback door should be fully meeting
that (?rubber) door seal. Here's what they saw, which they pointed
out to me:

There were several places where the seal was not fully
meeting the metal door! Why? Because of a combination of original
"caulking" (Dodge factory) imperfections in the door itself,
plus "dings" in the door, over time, resulting in "dimples"/divits,
causing GAPS (spaces), where air (including the leaking exhaust
fumes) was getting into my minivan, from the back end!

Where the air (with exhuast fumes) was leaking (?or being sucked?) into
the back of the minivan, they showed me dust/sand/dirt spots,
that were exactly where the SPACES were, in the metal edges of
the hatchback door, where the (?rubber) seal was not really sealing
against the hatchback door! I marked several of these places,
on the seal (more flexible than door), with "x's", with a ball point pen.

They told me to use either small pieces of 3M weather stripping to
fill these gaps on the hatchback door, or, to use caulking.

My husband did this, today.

Before I had gone to the Emissions Technical Center
(run by the Colorado Department of Health),
I had gone to a Dodge Dealer in Denver, and had the engine
steam cleaned, since my minvan leaks &/or burns a lot of oil.

The Dodge Dealer detail guy was told by the assistant Service Manager
to add some special dye to the oil, so that after I drive for another
400 or so miles, they can use "black light" to see exactly where
oil is leaking from, under the hood. Then, I can see if it's affordable
and feasable, to fix the oil leak(s).

After leaving the Emissions Technical Center, I drove right over to a
new muffler place, where (following the suggestion of the "supervisor")
the muffler place REMOVED MY OLD REAR MUFFER,
REMOVED MY OLD TAILPIPE, and they put on a new tailpipe, which
they had go out of the car sideways,
behind my right rear tire (pointing to the right).

The original way my tailpipe was, was pointing straight back,
not reaching the back end of the minivan, so the original tailpipe end,
was still slightly underneith the minivan!

This apparently encouraged the leaking
exhaust fumes to get into the leaky seal of the hatchback door!

This is a work in progress. I felt better (not quite as overcome) after the
new tailpipe was put on, but the new tailpipe doesn't extend out
far enough, according to my phone conversation with the supervisor.

Update: Supervisor said by phone, that the tailpipe should
extend out sideways to the right (beyond the minivan)
about an inch beyond where the outside of my right rear tire is.
This means that I will need a tailpipe extension welded on,
that is about 7" long, since the new tailpipe end, is still
(unfortunately), actually UNDER the body of the minivan!.

I have an afternoon appointment today, with the new muffler shop
to do the tailpipe extension. The supervisor of the Emissions
Technical Center said that the tailpipe extension I will be getting,
should have a slightly larger diameter (no smaller) than the
tailpipe now has.

Recently today, my husband used epoxy putty,
sanded the dried epoxy putty, then added "caulk",
(which--the caulk-- needs to dry for a while), to close up the gaps
in the hatchback door seal.

Then, after I get the new tailpipe 7" extension,
I will test drive my minivan some more, to see what happens.

I will try various combinations of heat, no heat, air conditioning, no a/c,
fresh air vs. recycled air, windows closed vs. windows open partly
to fully, coasting dowhill vs. accellerating uphill, etc. etc.

The supervisor said if I have any more problems to come back to their
Emissions Technical Center. I'll keep you posted.

I hope this helps others, who are scratching their heads, wondering
how to get started in diagnosing possible carbon monoxide fumes
getting into their Dodge Grand Caravans, etc.

People should call their state's Health Departments, find out where
their "Emissions Technical Centers" are, and get on over there!

I'll keep you posted.

Carol
970-531-5000 (cell)

 

Been cruising automotive forums for 8 years or so and this is the first time I recall someone bringing this up. You can buy inexpensive CO monitors ($5). Pilots use them to monitor CO exposure in cockpits. Here's examples:

http://www.pilotstore.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=1548
http://www.pilotmall.com/product/Qua...r/co-detectors

 

Thanks for your reply! I really like your idea of the carbon monoxide badge detector.
I will buy some, to see whether "CO" is still getting in, now that we fixed what we could.

I had an extension put onto the tailpipe, but am still feeling some kind of fumes,
especially when my fan is on--but even when no fan is on.


When I put the heat on, going over a mountain pass, I smelled a funny smell
that I couldn't identify.


My husband doesn't think I have carbon monoxide now, but we aren't sure.

I'll get the results of my carboxy-hemoglobin blood test in the morning,
& then I should know whether I have been exposed a lot to the "CO" or not.


My gut instinct is that something is coming in from under the hood,
but I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know.


My husband wonders if some kind(s) of toxic fumes could ever
get into ducts that are somehow related to the blower fan.


I won't drive the car for a while, so I can recuperate. If I can figure out,
with help, what's going on with my minivan, I'll post that here.


The Emission Technical Center guy said that if my oxygen sensor was
intermittently mal-functioning, it could cause more carbon monoxide to be made.

He also said that I might need a new catalytic converter. I'll price them first.


What I am learning, is that things are not that simple, not that clear-cut,
--especially since I'm not a mechanic, not a scientist, etc.


Carol

 

The fumes yesterday made me feel lightheaded.


I'm way better today, after a night's sleep without fumes--going to drive
my hubby's minivan until I can get those 'CO' badges.


Should I put a carbon monoxide badge on me, and
put another one in the back? Then, I can turn around &
use binoculars (when stopped) to see if the back one changes color,
without opening doors, that could dilute fumes.


If anyone on this forum knows top notch "fume" experts
(including, but not limited to carbon monoxide) in the
Denver area, please let me know!


Carol
970-531-5000 (c)

 

Just now, my husband and I went for a "test" ride in the minivan, with 4 "CO" meters
(the ones from your second link) going (one in his hand--one on the dashboard below
the radio, two in the back--one on each side).


No signs of carbon monoxide after half an hour of driving
(and previously half an hour of idling with fan on high heat).

But, after being in the minivan for a short time, driving, we both still felt spacy,
and in my case, head from ears up felt like it was expanding a bit.

My husband got a headache, and he feels worse now, since he was in my car
for about half an hour. We're both revived finally, from fresh air
(being out of the minivan.)

Now he knows I'm not nuts (at least, about fumes...), and he is
totally sympathetic to the fact that SOMETHING BAD is getting into the
air of the minivan, that makes both of us feel crappy & spacy.

We both smelled something, but we don't know what it was.
One time, for a second, I thought I smelled a burnt smell (?burnt oil?),
but other than my known oil leaks/burning oil, the mechanics say
that I'm not leaking anything.

Can a mild leak of tranny fluid &/or brake fluid &/or power steering fluid
get burnt (or not) & somehow get into the cabin of my minivan?

Here are some questions my husband & I thought of:

1) If the catalytic converter & oxygen sensors were working properly, so that
very little "CO" was coming out of the tailpipe in the exhaust fumes
(that are now exiting behind my right rear tire, with new tailpipe
coming out to the right), what are any OTHER fumes in exhaust fumes,
that theoretically could be getting into the vehicle, making us feel ill?

2) There is an air-leak around the right front passenger window
(we can hear the whistling wind). What could be theoretically coming
in (from where) that way?

3) What, from under the hood, that is toxic (poisonous), could be
getting into the cabin, to quickly make us feel ill?

4) Does anyone know a genius mechanic, etc., in the Denver/Boulder area,
who can identify what these obviously toxic fumes are, that are
making us feel spacy & sick, when we drive in my minivan?

Thanks in advance.

Carol
cell: 970-531-5000
fsds@rkymtnhi.com

 

I can tell you I have never heard anything with fumes getting into the passenger compartment, Have you contacted chrysler about this problem?

 

It is absolutely possible for engine oil, tranny oil, etc to come into contact with a very hot surface in the engine compartment and to get into the cabin if you have your vents/AC on fresh air and not recirculate. HOWEVER....I have never heard of either of these causing some kind of dizziness or lightheadedness. Could it be that you have already fixed the issue at hand and that you and your husband are experiencing anxiety related to thinking there is still a problem? The mind is quite powerful. No offense intended here. Just thought I would throw that out.

Have a third party drive the van for a day and get their opinion. Are they sick or lightheaded?

 

Dear wtribeflyer,