So I'm ordering the parts to have the timing chain done.

While I'm in there, I figure I might as well refresh the rotors on the oil pump.

Do I need to order a new oil pump cover as well?

Part numbers in question are:
ROTOR SET. Oil Pump.
04892831AA

COVER. Engine Oil Pump.
04483603AB

It's not ABSOLUTELY necessary but while the cover is off I'd like to handle everything that could go wrong to avoid having to do it again.

Any thoughts?

 

What's your mileage, and do you have any reason to suspect you have low oil pressure? Are you replacing the timing chain due to the rattling noise or some other reason?

Also, check the parts list and superceded parts for your timing gears, you may be forced to replace your front cover, and if you are it already includes a new oil pump. With my 05 DGC nobody could tell me what parts I would need or what timing gear is on my engine.

 

Mileage is @ 80k, no reason to suspect oil pressure problems, timing chain is being replaced due to the sound.

So far I haven't seen any supercession issues so perhaps your timing chain cover thing is a mid-year 05 issue? I have not had the issue raised when talking to the dealerships. I will keep you posted, this repair is planned for a couple of months from now when I have $$$ and time to take it in for repair.

 

Apparently as of 01/01/2005 they went to the narrow gears and all vans built after that date should NOT need a new front cover as they should already have the correct one for the narrow gears. I just know things got changed around a couple times so I thought I'd mention it as something to check. The other reason I mentioned it is that a local dealership told me that the new (narrow) timing gears and chains do not suffer from the rattle, and that if I had the problem I therefore must have the old gears/chain on there. Seems like nonsense to me as both your 06 and my 05 seem to contradict this.

My opinion is that there is no need to replace the oil pump unless you have low oil pressure. Whenever something that critical is taken apart and put back together there is always a chance a new problem would be created and I think it might be asking for trouble replacing parts in the oil pump. If you want some peace of mind have the shop doing the work do an oil pressure test before disassembling the front cover area, this will tell you if your pump is already marginal or is failing. Alternatively I guess you could have the gears on hand and have them ready to be replaced if the old ones measure out of spec, then return them if they don't.

Mind if I ask how many hours of labour you have been quoted? I was going to do this job myself and figured it would be about 10 hours start to finish for me. I was just wondering how fast the pros can do it

Last, I don't think that oil pump cover is necessary?... I thought just the gears wore out.

 

Thanks for the info!

I have been quoted 6-8 hours, across a couple of shops. There's the shop I'm going to use, and then the dealership, which quoted a lower number, but predicated that on timing chain replacement only, and I have a couple of other things I'll have them do when I'm in there.

The local shop knew about the rattle issue in the vans; the dealership service advisor and tech looked at me like I was nuts for suggesting a timing chain replacement. The tech actually said "I've only ever put one timing chain on a Dodge Caravan; they don't stretch." Of course, they wanted to "listen to it for a full diagnosis," etc. etc., aka, charge you an hour of diagnostic time in addition to the 6-hour quote.

Having worked in a dealership as a service advisor, I know the drill.

I haven't read of any problems with the oil pumps so perhaps I will save the money and just leave the oil pump alone. You might be right that it's a good solution and better not to chance it if there isn't a problem.

I have used Mobil 1 since I bought the van with @ 42k miles on it and it now has 80k.

Thanks!

 

I am not sure if this is an issue with the chains stretching or perhaps the gears wearing or a combination of both so I ordered the chain and gears for when I do my replacement. Were you planning on replacing the gears as well?

I tried asking on here whether it was a chain-only problem or if the gears wore as well and nobody answered so I figured it was better to replace the gears while I am in there (for the extra $31 it costs).

As far as diagnosis goes, just use a stethescope to listen to the timing cover, you'll hear really quick if that is where the noise is coming from. Any good dealership should waive the diagnostic fee if they do the repair, but I wouldn't be surprised if you would be unable to provide your own parts at a dealership, the ones around here would never allow it.

If you haven't bought the parts yet I ordered my stuff from dodgeparts.com, they came in significantly cheaper than any local dealership and cheaper than several other online suppliers. I have no idea if they supplied the right parts as I won't have them until this coming saturday, but they seemed quite competent when I talked to them. They shipped me a chain, both gears, front cover gasket, front main seal and an oil pan gasket, as well as a power steering reservoir, transmission filter, PCV valve and sway bar bushings for $161 including shipping.

 

Thanks, I will check out the Dodgeparts people. I was going to order mine from factorychryslerparts.com, run by a dealership in GA. I have all the part numbers and will compare at Dodgeparts website.

I always learned to replace all gears and chain at once, of course, I owned mostly older cars and a lot of them had nylon-covered timing gears which would crack and clog the oil pump as they got older. I plan on ordering all the parts and just doing it. No sense going in there just to replace a chain when they're so close.

I have heard that the thrust bearing on the end of the crank can cause this rattle -- I think it comes with the crank or cam gear, I forget which.

 

I checked that site first and dodgeparts came in about $16 cheaper than them by the time everything was ordered. Of course with different years come different parts prices so YMMV.
I've never owned anything with a timing chain before so I just figured for $31 it was worth replacing the gears as well.

There is a thrust bearing that can cause this rattle?... The only thrust bearings I have ever seen in engines are shared as main bearings. I am most curious about this, can you share more?

 

http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/...=0&modelYear=0

Take a look at that picture. The upper right thing with two bolt holes behind the cam gear is a "thrust plate" that is included or supposed to be included with the cam sprocket as part of:

SPROCKET, SPROCKET PACKAGE. Camshaft.
05137663AA


I have read online about the possibility that the thrust plate can wear and cause wobbling of the camshaft gear which in turn allows chain flex and the noise we are experiencing.

Makes sense, I suppose, as I think about how it should work offsetting everything.

Did you order the proper spacer dot for the cam position sensor? It's part number 52522229 and is about $5-6. I have been told that's important so I picked one up.

 

Wow, I don't think I ordered the sprocket package that is shown there, here is the description of what I ordered:
It says the same thing for the crankshaft gear, "timing gear set", and the price was $20.52 for the camshaft gear which seems a few bucks too cheap to include the thrust plate. That part number may be incorrect for my actual order as some part numbers were changed in the order but are not reflected on my invoice.

I will be picking up the parts on saturday so I guess we'll see what is in the box. I suppose if I need the thrust plate perhaps a local dealership can get it without charging me too much for it.

Looking at the plate and its description, I don't think it keeps the cam gear from wobbling, which is the only way I can see it producing and play in the chain. Usually thrust plates and bearings prevent axial movement of cams and cranks. Perhaps the whole cam is walking over and banging on the front cover?... that's a scary thought!

Also, a spacer dot for the cam position sensor?... There is another thing I haven't heard about, what is the story with that thing?