I traded in my '99 Olds Intrigue (which I bought new and loved) this past Friday. I've been loyal to GM in the past - my father worked at GM for almost 35 years and retired from there, I've driven GM my entire life, and I work at a primarily GM dealership. However, GM in their infinite wisdom no longer makes any type of minivan. (Absolute genius on their part IMO. ) Took me a while to make the jump to a non-GM vehicle, but since the only vehicles GM makes that I am able to comfortably drive are the Avalanche and other huge trucks that get ~10-12 mpg, it was really my only option. (I'm really not a 'truck guy' and it seems absurd that my Intrigue has more head & leg room than a Tahoe & Suburban, but it's a fact.) I've been loyal to GM in part because of my father's retirement, but they took his health care away a few years ago and are converting his pension to a non-guaranteed annuity at the end of this year, so there's no longer any tie there. (He swears that he's never going to buy another GM product because of how they've treated him the past few years; honestly, I really can't say that I blame him for feeling this way.) I discussed it with my boss and she completely understood why I wasn't buying a vehicle from my employer, but it was difficult for me regardless. All-told, I no longer have loyalty to GM, which is kind of sad when you think about it.

Long story short (I know - too late), I ended up buying a new 2012 Grand Caravan SXT in red. Was intending to buy used, but new was only a few grand more, it would be new, and I'd have the factory warranty. I picked up my new Caravan this past Friday evening before the long weekend.

While I like it for the most part, there are a few things that I've noticed that make me go 'WTF is Dodge thinking?'. It's not just me who says this either - I show my van to other people and they have pretty much the same reaction. There are also several really good features about it that I think reflect a great design, but it seems like I notice the bad more easily & often than the good.

I'm just wondering if anybody else has noticed these and what your opinions are on them. Also kind of hoping some Dodge execs read the forum and consider changing the vehicle - it could be a killer with a few simple changes.

 

The "WTF did they do that???" list:


1. Whip Radio Antenna

Really Dodge?!? It's 199-what? Why not have an integrated antenna like every other vehicle made in the last 10+ years? Heck, my 1999 Intrigue had an integrated antenna!

2. No Automatic Headlights

Again, why not include this as standard? *******ly every vehicle I've driven made in the last decade has this option. (I work at a non-Dodge dealership and drive various new/used dealership vehicles at least once a week.) You already use the same switch from what I've read and artificially restrict the use of the auto option with a plastic tab. I do not have the dash dome sun sensor and so replacing the switch will only give me lights that go on/off with the car from what I've read. With the MSRP of my vehicle being nearly $28,000, are you really too cheap to include a $.80 sensor? In order to get automatic headlights, I would have needed to go up to a Crew and then add a $1300 option group on top of that. Not only does the Crew come with the touch-screen radio I do not want, but the option group also includes rain sensing wiper blades which I find to be one of the most annoying & distracting things I've ever seen when driving. Every time it gets dark while I'm driving and whenever I stop the van when it's dark out, I utter a curse/swear word followed by 'lights' - freakin aggravating to have to turn em on and off manually like I was back driving my first car, a 1983 Delta 88!

3. Rear-view Mirror Placement

I am definitely on the tall range of people at 6'7", but I'm also not that excessively tall - there are people taller than me around. When I sit in the Caravan with the seat all the way down and the mirror tilted all the way up, it's perfectly in line with the road. This is a serious safety concern - because of the relative sizes/distances involved, a full-sized semi on a cross-street can hide behind the mirror. I've looked into removing and remounting the mounting puck on the windshield, but everything I've read about it indicates that you run a real risk of breaking the windshield trying to get it off. Same response when calling professional glass companies - they can and are willing to do it, but might break/crack/divot the windshield and are unable to guarantee against it. Of course, a new windshield already has the mount piece attached, so I'd be in the same situation again. The dealership ordered a new mount piece and will be mounting it up higher for me, leaving the original one in place. Why not simply have it mounted higher up to begin with? It'd be out of the way for both myself and for short people who would have to simply tip the mirror down farther. Simple change to expand versatility and safety. I'm glad the dealership was willing to accommodate me on this as I am not able to safely drive the vehicle with the mirror where it is - probably wouldn't have bought if had they not, even though I don't relish the idea of having an extra mount stuck to my windshield.

4. Rear Cargo Area Sizing

I measured and the narrowest point in the back at 47.75" wide. A standard 4x8 sheet of plywood is anywhere from 48-49" wide, usually 48.25-48.75. Why not make it marginally wider so a sheet would fit without problems? (Note that I have not tried fitting a piece of sheet material in yet, but am going by what the tape measure read.) Likewise, from the back of the front seats to the line it says to load to is just under 8'.

5. Engine has a Warble

I drove Caravans from 2009, 2010, 2011, and new/2012. I tried Town & Country vans from 2010, 2011, and new/2012. Every single one has what sounds like a low intermittent warble coming from the engine. The sound doesn't happen every time, but it does happen when both speeding up and slowing down and I am able to keep it going sometimes. It's quite low volume most of the time, but is definitely there and annoying to somebody with my hearing acuity. Nobody I've talked to, including people at the dealership, has been able to explain it or even come up with a reasonable guess as to what it might be. Since it's there on all vans of this type, I have to assume it's normal.

6. Self-Dimming Rear View Mirror Availability

I had this on a Cadillac rental when my Intrigue was in the shop once. I thought it was an awesome feature, especially since my eyes are very light sensitive. I really wanted it and was willing to pay reasonably for it, but what it would have taken to get was absolutely ridiculous. According to the techs I've talked to, the wiring harness is almost certainly there and I just need the mirror itself to plug in, but nobody can tell me 100% without ripping apart the top of my van. Plus, the sunscreen glass behind/above where the mirror will be mounted after the part for #3 is in will interfere with it's operation.

7. No Heated Wiper Blades

You have heated outside mirrors, but removed the feature that my uncle had on his old beat-up Chrysler van many years ago that provided a heating element where the wipers come to rest! Some of you should come up to Michigan in the winter and drive around for a while... you'd add it back in quick! Wipers getting froze down is not uncommon here - I couldn't believe it when the sales guy told me this feature was no longer available.

8. Can't have USB without Touch-Screen

Call me crazy, but when I drive, I don't want to be looking at places other than the road. I know this is old-fashioned - my old boss had me write a program that would transcode DVDs so he could watch them on his phone during the hour ride to work and back! Once I learn the controls, I can adjust the radio by feel simply by putting my hand on it and finding a reference point, similar to typing. Touch screen radios eliminate this - you MUST look at the radio to be able to tell what you're doing. Unfortunately, I'm unable to connect a flash drive with MP3s on to play without getting a touch-screen radio.

9. No Manual

Again, this doesn't come with a $28,000 vehicle??? I know I can send away for one since I'm the original owner, but come on guys...

10. No Built-in Inverter

Several of the used vans I looked at had a built-in inverter between the middle and third row seats, but this is missing on the 2012.

11. Gas Cap Positioning

Dodge engineers - I'd like you to go out with a bunch of people in the van with you. After quite a while in the car, pull in somewhere for gas and observe what happens. Yup - somebody will invariably get out of the back after you've started pumping. Because of the positioning of the gas fill tube, the power sliding door hits the gas pump handle. I flipped you off in thanks for the first ding in my car at less than 2 days old caused by a design flaw.

 

Minor Design Flaws:

1. Gas Cap Release

Speaking of gas caps, why on earth don't you have an inside release for the gas cap door? It eliminates the need for a locking gas cap to secure the gas which has forced us to take out a second mortgage the house whenever the tank is under half.

2. Rough Shifting

Whenever I take off from a stop/near stop, the van lurches slightly when it shifts. It's like the engine has to pause between gears. I understand shifting, but this is one of the roughest shifting vehicles I've driven.

3. Shifts to Reverse

My Intrigue as well as pretty much all other vehicles I've tried this with require you to do something to shift to reverse - press a button, pull back on the lever, etc. When approaching a stop, I'd routinely hit my shift lever forward to pop it into neutral - coasting to a stop with the engine idling freely is easier on the engine, saves wear on your brakes, and increases fuel economy marginally. Won't be doing that with my van though - shifts right up into reverse when you hit the shifter up.

4. No Back Button on Driver Info Center

If I want to display the previous piece of information in the driver information center, I have to press the 'Step' button something crazy like 11 times. Distracting from the road to say the least. Digital speed readout could easily be displayed all the time behind the speedometer. Likewise, many of the other pieces of information could be moved out and displayed all the time using unused space on the instrument panel. Even just a multi-line display to show several pieces of information at once would be an improvement. Also missing from the 2012 that the used vehicles I tried had is a compass feature - simply not there.

5. Cruise Set Indicator WAY too Small

You have a nice wheel light to indicate that cruise control is enabled, but to show that the car is holding at speed, there's a little tiny dot near the circle. What gives - are dash lights so expensive that you couldn't afford a more visible indicator?!??

6. Window Sticker Inaccuracy

The dealer I bought my van from traded for one - exterior color was red pearl coat and interior color was black trim with light graystone seat color. Imagine my surprise when I looked at the van and the entire inside was pitch black! Sylistically, I really wouldn't have cared, but I can only imagine trying to keep black seats clean and the amount of heat they'd suck up in the summer. Dealer ended up trading for a different vehicle with light seats - window sticker read the same, but had light graystone seat color in the options as well as under the interior color. Sales person told me that black was standard unless it specified in the options. This fit the observed facts, but why on earth list 'light graystone seat color' under interior color if the seats are black!?????!??? Felt like an *** for not taking the first van they traded for, but it did not match what was on the window sticker!

 

The "That's just freakin awesome!" list:

1. Integrated Roof Rails

Whoever came up with the idea to store the crossbars down inside the side rails should be given a big fat bonus, a promotion, and license to come up with more ideas like this. Great design.

2. Stow and Go

This is one of the best ways to store seats of any van I've been in. Wish they were truly removable so I could eliminate one middle-row seat and have the storage underneath. Likewise, I wish there were a small amount of clearance under them when they're stowed - I have a moving blanket from HF that I'd like to keep down there out of sight, but the tolerances are too close and the blanket makes the seats fold just proud of being flat. My father has had several vans over the years and we always have a pile of seats stuffed in the garage - not so with this van.

3. Ability to Shut Off Power Doors

The switch that turns the power doors into regular doors is another great idea. They're handy at times, but it's annoying waiting for them at others. One thing I do wish for is the ability to deactivate the power feature from the remote. (There's a story behind this one, the short form of which is that I was camping years ago just outside Yosemite and had cleaned 2 rainbow trout just before bed. No running water in the campground, so I just wiped my hands on a towel and went to bed in the soft-sided tent. During the night, a grizzly bear came through the campground and the guys across the road who'd had a drinking party earlier and had piled all their food out on the table were chasing the bear away, several times toward our site. All of us made a mad dash for the van and spent the rest of the night locked inside; I can only imagine how long it would have seemed to take if I'd have had to wait for the power door in that situation!)

4. Extra Glove Box

The extra and oversize glove box in the dash is awesome and is actually large enough to put something useful in. I can barely fit my spare glasses in most glove boxes.

5. 6-Speed Transmission

More gears = better gas mileage. Just wish it shifted more smoothly. Also slick is the ability to manually shift when in drive, but I wish I understood it's behavior better - seems to ignore what I've set at times.

6. Head Room with Power Seat

Without the power seat, I can drive the van but not comfortably. With the power seat and it's ability to move down, I have more head room than in most any other vehicle, including my Intrigue. Wish it moved back a little more, but leg room is OK the way it is.

7. Simple Entry Key

This is both a pro and a con. I keep a spare key in my wallet in case I lock my keys in the car. Most companies make you buy a new fob/custom programmed key for gobs of cash. Sales guy told me that their parts department could do it or I could take it to a hardware store and have a key cut for $2. It's great not having to spend a ton of money on something I'll hopefully never have to use. On the same note, why not include a simple entry key (plain metal with no plastic on) with the vehicle? The hardware has got to be making money charging $2 a key... I can only imagine how little it'd cost.

8. Heated Mirrors

This is a great idea, especially since I live in Michigan and spend 4-5 months driving on snow/ice. No more scraping mirrors for me!

9. Eco Mode

Great idea to improve fuel economy. Haven't had a chance to do a real-world comparison, but I understand that it alters the shift points to shift sooner for a boost in economy at the expense of power.

10. Key in Fob

I really like having a backup entry key incorporated into the fob - very good design if the fob battery dies.

11. Excellent Remote Range

The range of the remote is unbelievable! I just hope it stays this good for a considerable amount of time and that the battery doesn't die right away.

 

Something I noticed after posting, why is the word '*******' censored? '*******ly every vehicle' meaning basically almost every vehicle. Can't say for certain because I've had to drive some stripped down trucks that you had to crank the windows down in - dunno if they had auto lights or not...

http://tinyurl.com/dy2kzcn

I know of and can think of no vulgar or inappropriate meaning of the word in question...

 

I have a 12 sxt plus package and in your wtf list #6 and #10 are included in mine.
As for #11 on my van if the fuel door is open then the sliding door will not open from
inside or out. It is made for Canada I don't know if that is the difference.

 

There is a mechanical rod that, when the gas cover is open, should lock the sliding door from opening. Have the dealer check this if it does not operate as such, rod could be missing/bent/etc. I would agree that the whip antenna is old tech and heated wipers would be nice. The reason they no longer provide manuals is many people just throw them out or never use them thus, as well as saving the company money, there is the side effect of less environmental impact. Many of your other gripes are available on higher packages and options lists, if EVERYTHING was standard then people would gripe about not having choices (no win situation.) As for the price, I would never pay MSRP for a vehicle and being the 2013's are hitting the lots you should have gotten a great deal on the 2012 and used that savings to get the extras you wanted and live with any extra things you didn't want.
Personally some of what you have said sounds to me like someone looking for reasons NOT to like a non-GM vehicle, just my $.02.

 

Manuals? Free download off the Chrysler website.

Get Chrysler's attention? Send a letter to Sergio.

Not that it's a requirement in the first place but, it sounds fair and balanced to me. Plenty of dislikes but plenty of likes too.

 

I tested it out and have confirmed this to be on my car as well. Regardless, the above did happen at Meijer's gas station 2 days after I bought the van - I was pumping gas and one of the people inside the car opened the side door while the pump was in the fill tube. I cannot explain it, nor reproduce opening the door with the gas door open.


You're absolutely right. Why not allow people to pick and choose options? Like I said above, I feel that rain-sensing wiper blades are one of the most annoying, distracting, ridiculous things I've ever seen driving a car. However, you aren't able to get the self-dimming mirror without them, which is just plain dumb. And while I did get a good deal on my van, it remains a fact that most other vehicles have automatic headlights standard on base models; I'm not going to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to get this option, especially when it means I will have to deal with other options that I do NOT want.


Sorry you feel this way, though I'm confused. I was pointing out points about the design of the vehicle, both good things and things that could make the vehicle better. Why do you think I'd want to not like a vehicle I just spent well over 20 grand on, especially when I included a list of great design aspects??? Yes, it's my first non-GM vehicle, but with the way GM has jacked my dad around, it's likely only the first of many.


Who is Sergio? Is he on this forum? If he has influence with Dodge, I'd very much like to write him a letter.



I've also discovered additions to my 'freakin awesome' and 'WTF' lists.

Today was the first time since buying the van I was driving while raining hard enough to use the wiper blades. They actually clean off the entire windshield! Most vehicles that I drive have the top of the wiper blade (and hence the 'line') in line with or below my line of sight. I can't see the top wiper blade line on my van!

Heard back from the dealership about moving my rear-view mirror. They do not make the mounting piece separate from the windshield. Further, after calling several auto parts stores, I discovered that Chrysler has made it so that nobody is able to get the mounting piece without buying a windshield! BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Luckily, the mirror fits on a non-GM mount piece, which I ripped off a broken windshield at work. (Benefit of working at an auto dealership.) Just have to get it mounted, though it looks pretty stupid having an extra mount on the windshield. I also called the state police and discovered that, in Michigan, you only need 2 functional mirrors on your vehicle. As much as I miss using the rear view mirror, it's MUCH, MUCH, MUCH safer for me to drive with it gone. (First week, I nearly caused 2 accidents, including one where a full-sized black pickup hid behind the mirror when approaching an intersection.) Related to WTF item #3, but not making the metal piece separate warrants it's own place in the list of shame.

 

I was being facetious. Sergio Marchionne is the CEO of Chrysler LLC - the big cheeze at Chrysler. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_16...le-turnaround/