I have no interest in wasting money on vanity or attracting looks from anyone. Folks who know me will agree. Yes, that does make me proud to some degree because my children are not the least bit embarrassed to wear Walmart clothing to our snob-ridden schools where parents who conform to the norm are saddled with paying $2K/yr for the latest kids clothing with particular mfr names plastered on them. My older daughter came home with a bag of premium quality clothing for summer work. She proudly found them at Goodwill. Some spoiled brat donated them after one wearing or gaining weight, I suppose. I never went there, so she did that on her own. I'm proud of her too...chip off the old block.

Unfortunately posted inquiries can result in some unsolicited advice from members. I have saved people tons of time, money and anguish over the last decade by providing such advice. Some ignore my advice while other's embrace it. It's reader's choice!

No, use the quotation feature, please. You're twisting and exaggerating my position for effect. I never said anything like that. The 20" wheels just offer more cons than pros on a GC.

Wise people do not choose form over function for a pedestrian street vehicle such as a grand caravan. A PhD or Surgeon may not know whether 20" wheels on a minivan make any sense whatsoever. The 60 comments you got were from folks who were gawking at your van sitting stationary, not driving it. These folks who positively commented were totally ignorant of it's road capabilities. Ignorance is no virtue.


Once again, vanity is #1....all about show, no go.

Why? Because you CLEARLY care more about looks and show than vehicle functionality or performance and make no apologies for it? Duh.

Hey, my dislike of the 20" wheel downgrade does not give you license to attack or otherwise denigrate my wife. What in the world is wrong with you?? Grow up. Do you need to lower yourself to that sort of approach when technical reasoning is missing?

OK, now you're denigrating me. You're way off base, man. Is this stereotype and personal attack your last angle?

Since when is a Corvette or BMW not competitive? Vette and BMW are two top choices for weekend track use. I have over 50K track miles under my belt as a licensed competitor and instructor. Both Corvette and BMW have led in road racing for the last 30 years. What is a "competitive example" to you anyway? In stock form, Corvette has gone toe-to-toe with Ferrari in road racing since 1986. The interior quality may not be equal, but the lap times are. Track is about control, speed and handling, not fit, finish, wax, shine or gawking. BMW is seen as "the" world leader in the sports sedan market. Both of my track cars have 6 speed manual transmissions of course.

You seem to forget I have a minivan...oh, actually I have TWO Grand Caravans ('01 and '08)!! It's not what you own that makes anyone appear vain though. It's the personal attention and looks you openly desire and strive for, and how you feed off it. My BMW and Corvette are not about looks at all. Both were purchased purely from a competitiveness, performance, driver satisfaction & functionality standpoint. Looks does not factor in at all. In fact, my sports cars get waxed about once every few yrs and they get at least one annual washdown with a hose to remove the caked-on track brake dust. These cars were bought 100% for go, and 0% show. Neither has been at a show of any sort. It's all about driving experience for me and I'm perfectly happy ALONE on a track or back road. I have nothing to prove to myself or anyone else. If I had my way, my BMW and Corvette would have Chevy Lumina or Ford Granada body kits on them to avoid attracting looks or envy from others. I don't want it.

Conclusion:

We are exact opposites and that's OK with me. From a street or performance car standpoint, you are all about looks while I'm all about function. However this discussion is limited to road vehicles, not wives, antiques, flowers or collectible paintings. Enough with the invalid extrapolations and inappropriate attacks. You are free to disagree with my technical opinion all you like, but leave my wife out of it. Otherwise things will go very badly for you. My goal in this thread was to point out that 20" wheels are not an upgrade from a technical standpoint and make that very clear to those who may wrongly assume so. I am entitled to state my opinion about performance modifications, especially after 50K track miles running every student's vehicle from A thru Z.

 

I hate to see a usefull thread deteriorate like this. I don't think Lscman and Flys-Lo will ever see eye to eye on 20" wheels because they share different values and no amount of logical argument will change this. I suspect that the majority of the forum members are primarily attracted to the practical nature of the Caravan but there are a few of us who also put aesthetics high up on the list. As a carpenter, I stripped out the seats of both my 1997 and the 2013 that has replaced it, for carrying 4x8 sheets and tools. At the same time I put Italian wheels on the '97 and am considering 20" rims for the new R/T. The newest body style is a taller slab-sided beast that begs for the balance of larger wheels. 19" would be the ideal [as offered on some Toyota minivans] but there are few wheels and even fewer tires to choose from. I'm not doing it to impress anyone but myself. It's like the flower garden and landscaping in the back of my property which the public never sees but gives me great pleasure to look at.
I'll be going with a polished rim and black center to emphasize the larger diameter but downplay the 'bling' of some rims.
To each his own - I would hope that this forum is built around problem solving and helpfull comments. I would love to see pics of the OP's van with the new wheels [if he hasn't been scared off]

 

Ideally, "helpful comments" would include openly questioning things, expressing concern, caution &/or sharing alternative thought. I've been on a few rah-rah forums where subjects are not thoroughly examined because negative feedback is outright discouraged. Very bad conclusions are reached when contrary thought is seen as unwelcome or in any way not helpful. Sanity checks are necessary to thoroughly analyze something. Questioning a position using devil's advocate method spurs thought and deeper reflection, allowing a group to reach optimal conclusions. Otherwise we may blindly follow in lockstep off a gangplank.

The trick is to keep threads from getting personal when subjective disagreement exists, as the gap may not close. Objective, technical topics are far less controversial and more about collecting necessary facts.

I have nothing against cosmetic upgrades that other's see fit to spend money on. It is not right or wrong. However if I see significant drawbacks, I might see fit to explain why it's not for me even if nobody's askin' lol. Again, readers can decide what suits them or what to believe.

 

I agree. The forum should be a place where one can post a question without fear of being called a fool, unintelligent and juvenile. One where like minded enthusiasts gather for discussion without being bullied by know-it-alls answering questions that haven't been asked.

I think what's ironic about this is that the Lincoln/Vette/BMW guy and I really aren't far off on "values" as you put it. My personal garage houses street, strip and track cars that I would bet serious money on Lscman would enjoy on the track and even the street. I just don't see the point in listing them in a thread on Caravan wheels (and I only list my current Mopar's in this forum's "garage tab" and left the foreign hardware off the list as non-relevant). The difference is that I know how to stick to the subject in the post and not interject personal taste and insult an OP on his choice. I didn't have to, and won't list the cars that I race to attempt to prove my points here. The OP wanted opinion on color of the wheel he already picked out and had a question on the size of tire. Unfortunately for the OP he didn't get what he bargained for here. A bully arrived and used the following insults to ridicule him and I:

entering ghetto territory
You will never impress anybody remotely intelligent
a 16yo urban ghetto kid
have a serious vanity complex (for liking 20" wheels)
looking for compliments from fools
wasting your money on silly stuff
chop a couple coils off each spring
slam it
bolt on a J.C. Whitney hood scoop
strictly for amusement only
wasting money
degrading your van
juvie mods
wasting time & money

The "values" that differentiate us is that I don't think an internet bully should get away with taking a perfectly good thread and insulting the members who are discussing the questions of the OP. Unfortunately we have a bully that is full of pride and cannot self reflect on his own vanity (yes, bragging about NOT washing/waxing your cars and bragging how humble you are wearing Walmart clothes is also vain). I love hearing guys brag about being humble.

To Lscman: Like a typical bully you click on a thread about 20" wheels on a GC - which you hate - to insult the members with your perceived superior viewpoint. I called you out on it and suddenly you play the victim when the tables are turned and I inject a series of "what-if's matching extreme statements (you directly insulted us - I merely said "what-if" I treated you the same way?). I don't even know you - but if the shoe fits...

You could have added a constructive comment without the insults, or you could have simply asked the OP if he cared to discuss your thoughts on the technical merits. Better yet, start a thread titled "I HATE 20 INCH WHEELS ON VANS".

I'll end my entries to this thread with this (and I'm sure you can't quit without the last word):
Any other foolish, low intelligence, juvenile, ghetto, money wasters looking for information on placing 20 inch wheels and tires on your GC... PM me and I'll help you with my experience any way I can.

 

There was a distinct difference between our posts. You chose to denigrate my wife and me which has ZERO to do with wheels of any diameter or color. My comments were not directed at you, your family or your wife.

I provided technical information while commenting about who would be MOST impressed with 20's, or not. You objected to the demographics, as urban juveniles love oversize wheels the most. About half the teens in our poorest metro neighborhoods have huge wheels installed on family SUV's and minivans. Why do you find this reality offensive? Other folks like oversize wheels too for a variety of reasons. It's not so predominant or such an obsession outside the city limits or for 30+ yo adults. Chip Foos likes very big wheels and slammed suspension. I have nothing against his work at all. He is building showy street cruisers. I find the fan base for various mods like oversize wheels, slamming and high wattage audio systems to be quite interesting. It's just not something mature adults in my neighborhood embrace. Maybe it's the fat balding midlife thing you directed at me?

The vanity comments I made should not be taken as an insult. Looks and compliments were your primary stated objectives. You made it crystal clear that you were looking to attract attention when showing off your van. You actually think a hood scoop would not turn heads? Foos would install one! You actually count and monitor feedback from onlookers. You need to accept that modifications to attract attention from the public are fairly and accurately categorized as vanity mods.

Don't try to tell me about my perceptions or why I clicked on this thread because you have absolutely no clue. My purpose here was to dispel the myth that 20" wheels have any redeeming value from a technical standpoint. Aside from vanity, they are a downgrade but many people don't realize that. My sole objective is to help people with technical topics so they fix issues quickly, cheaply and don't waste money making the wrong repairs or modifications. Although you may not believe that, my mission was accomplished in this thread. Those who are strictly into vanity modifications for show will not be discouraged at all from buying 20" wheels and tires after reading my posts. That's just fine with me! Folks looking to maintain ride quality, NVH and fuel economy may think twice.

PS: If you read the 10K posts I have on various forums, you will understand my mission is largely technical research, development and support. I'm involved with two domestic OE mfr road racing programs while helping folks spend money wisely on their vehicles, whether it be for street or racing. Folks who see no need for fancy clothing, weekly car waxes or expensive oversize wheels are not vain, so I find your response odd. Folks who have no interest in time or money for show or looks are better described as unpretentious, introverted or modest.

 

Lsc, im the opposite. I wanna downgrade my wheels to 15's so I can buy cheaper tyres but I got the big brakes.

 

I'm bipolar. On my 2001 sport I run 15's in the Winter with full snow tires on all 4 corners and 17's with Summer tread in fair weather. It works out well though. I would have run all season on a single set of wheels but my wife gets stuck in the winter too easy. Her last car was a 4WD Tempo and her last van was an Aerostar 4WD.

I paid about $550 for the 17's with Z rated rubber, mounted and balanced. When Dodge discontinued the 17" option in 2003 due to low demand, they sold their dead stock thru a big tire retailer. The tires were worth $450, so I figured I got 4 new wheels for about $100.

 

The deed is done. I had the wheels shipped to me & the tires from Tirerack.com shipped directly to Pep Boys. Everything went very smoothly.

With the 40 series there is no noticeable change in the speedo vs the GPS. The ride is different, it is a little harsher. It is a little noisier, but the frequency is a little lower, not low or loud enough to 'drone'. It does seem to have a little quicker steering response (but that may be because I want it to have a little quicker steering response). There is no interference.

 

Nice clean look and good contrast with the dark paint. Just to confirm - are those 245/40-20 tires? Which brand?

 

Yep, Hankooks. I originally ordered 45 series & TireRack called me back to suggest the 40s, and they were $2/tire cheaper.