ANYTHING BUT RICE RIGHT?
ORIGINAL: THE STUD
well, it's really hard to every say that a "line" of cars is a classic. in other words, none are classics if their different models of cars. Mustang is mustang, rx8 is not rx2 or rxwhatever. a Classis maybe to a few people, the general public knows nothing about any rx classics or z classics. they know about mustang, camaro, maybe challenger/cuda. still today, most people dont knwo what an rx8 is, but you say mustang, and their like you lucky kid you.
and did you miss all those commercials when GM had the 10/100000? do you have a tv, there were like hundreds of them, maybe they've changed it recently, but for a while they had the 10/100000. And yes those kia/hyundai have those, but that's because their so krappy that they need them. i knoew two people who had to replace 3 engines apiece to 100k. Another person I knew had 7 transmissions go out. 7!!!!!!!!! to 100k. so don't be too proud of that warranty thing.
well, it's really hard to every say that a "line" of cars is a classic. in other words, none are classics if their different models of cars. Mustang is mustang, rx8 is not rx2 or rxwhatever. a Classis maybe to a few people, the general public knows nothing about any rx classics or z classics. they know about mustang, camaro, maybe challenger/cuda. still today, most people dont knwo what an rx8 is, but you say mustang, and their like you lucky kid you.
and did you miss all those commercials when GM had the 10/100000? do you have a tv, there were like hundreds of them, maybe they've changed it recently, but for a while they had the 10/100000. And yes those kia/hyundai have those, but that's because their so krappy that they need them. i knoew two people who had to replace 3 engines apiece to 100k. Another person I knew had 7 transmissions go out. 7!!!!!!!!! to 100k. so don't be too proud of that warranty thing.
A good long term warranty is seen mostly as a manufacturer that stands behind what they build and the fact that they so heavily back it up with these extensivewarranties is proof of that, or at least it's what they want the consumer to believe. Either way it's a gamble, because if they are just using it as a selling point knowing the product won't hold up then they are out millions of dollars in the long run due to parts and labor costs that they are forced to eat just to sell more cars that will cost them far more in the future as well, it's financial suicide. Most consumers today with the ever growing car prices would rather buy a car they know is covered for major repairs for the length of their cars' payments and often times years after even (which is generally the case with a 10/100,000 warranty), than to buy one that isn't covered for very long and often times isn't covered for more than about half way through the time it takes them to have the car paid off (typical Detroit 3/36,000 warranty). The majority would rather have to take their car in several times for major repairs that don't cost them any money, than to risk having to take it in even one time for a major repair that they have to pay for. Again, this is just the majority of consumers and I myself have notbeen much of a majority person which is why I only buy Mopars.
As for the profanity and immaturity shown by several here in this thread, it ends or this thread is gone and it might just as well be gone anyway since it's been used mostly for flaming. There have been those calling each other hypocrites for using profanity, immaturity, grammar, etc. and it's simply one kettle calling the other kettle black. Keep it clean and keep it factual.
ORIGINAL: scg87
Well look at that, I DID read the post after all.Check the bold section of text, dummy.
And of the ones I listed, I stated which ones I bought new.
Me talking about American cars w/ outdated platforms and engines, resale values, etc, is NOT an opinion. How about you read up on some J D Power, and other consumer reports. The architecture of the 3.8 V6 in the Grand Prix is over 30 years old. W/ 3.8 liters of displacement, it struggles to make 200 hp. So yeah, that's old. That's outdated. That's weak. Or how about the Mustang, whichuntil 2005's redesign, used the same basic chasis and underpinnings since 1979. That's oldand outdated.
Andwhen did I say you were racist??? If you're a genius like you claim, you should know the term "prejudice" doesn't necessarily refer to race.
And yeah, I do know a lot about cars. More than you and all of your other worthless, douchebag, midlife crisis, balding buddies put together. ***got.
The problem is the "reasons" you hate "rice" are pointless and retarded.
But it doesn't matter though, because you used foul language in your last post. So it was automatically illogical. I wouldn't even have replied if it weren't for the simple fact that I love getting on here every day and completely PWNING a total moron...........
ORIGINAL: THE STUD
your a freakin looney. thats all i have to say to u. u don't know anything u yourself say. raging lunatic. yikes.
you don't make one valid point except your foul language which shows your low intelligence. i feel stupider for reading and even replying to your trashy level, but a freak like you can't go unchecked forever. what, ur some dumb kid who owns a little ricer and thinks he knows something?
how many cars u owned? try 20 brand new in the last 15 years. oh what you can't? didn't think so psycho.what's ur basis, the whopping 2 or 3 used cars you've maybe owned?
Hey rice lover, being narrow minded is being stupid. Your very stupid. U think that being narrow minded is telling people to quit living in the twisted media induced hypnotic state that rice is better is narrow minded? man i don't know what's wrong with you, but u have nothing productive to add except your random blabber I can't half way through.
Wanna know why those cars from classic aren't around anymore? cause idiots like u went out and started buying hondas and toyotas when gas went up, then they went out and bought them when they were told that their quality was better. if you wanna know who put these classics in the history books, take a look at yourself.
oh and electric cars are a joke, and why did u say i thought somebody was a terrorist? man you are nuts. GO BACK HOME TO MOMMY AND LEARN HOW TO THINK PROPERLY
freak
if you'd like to continue discussing this with a genius with 165 iq, go ahead, if I can find one interesting logical thing u say, I might just slam you, so you quit talking **** you hipocrit
oh and ur really dumb if you think a brand is american cause it builds an assembly plant here, talk about buying their propoganda. they assemble what they made in their own countries, so their american?lol your gullable
and how many of these new "american ****ty cars" have you owned? i mean real ones, not cobalts or tiny focuses. give me what u know from experience all knowing one. list ur new from dealer vehicles that you've had. go ahead, make a fool of yourself
I'm not a car enthusiast? lol, that's beyond crazy. you should be committed.
your a freakin looney. thats all i have to say to u. u don't know anything u yourself say. raging lunatic. yikes.
you don't make one valid point except your foul language which shows your low intelligence. i feel stupider for reading and even replying to your trashy level, but a freak like you can't go unchecked forever. what, ur some dumb kid who owns a little ricer and thinks he knows something?
how many cars u owned? try 20 brand new in the last 15 years. oh what you can't? didn't think so psycho.what's ur basis, the whopping 2 or 3 used cars you've maybe owned?
Hey rice lover, being narrow minded is being stupid. Your very stupid. U think that being narrow minded is telling people to quit living in the twisted media induced hypnotic state that rice is better is narrow minded? man i don't know what's wrong with you, but u have nothing productive to add except your random blabber I can't half way through.
Wanna know why those cars from classic aren't around anymore? cause idiots like u went out and started buying hondas and toyotas when gas went up, then they went out and bought them when they were told that their quality was better. if you wanna know who put these classics in the history books, take a look at yourself.
oh and electric cars are a joke, and why did u say i thought somebody was a terrorist? man you are nuts. GO BACK HOME TO MOMMY AND LEARN HOW TO THINK PROPERLY
freak
if you'd like to continue discussing this with a genius with 165 iq, go ahead, if I can find one interesting logical thing u say, I might just slam you, so you quit talking **** you hipocrit
oh and ur really dumb if you think a brand is american cause it builds an assembly plant here, talk about buying their propoganda. they assemble what they made in their own countries, so their american?lol your gullable
and how many of these new "american ****ty cars" have you owned? i mean real ones, not cobalts or tiny focuses. give me what u know from experience all knowing one. list ur new from dealer vehicles that you've had. go ahead, make a fool of yourself
I'm not a car enthusiast? lol, that's beyond crazy. you should be committed.
And of the ones I listed, I stated which ones I bought new.
Me talking about American cars w/ outdated platforms and engines, resale values, etc, is NOT an opinion. How about you read up on some J D Power, and other consumer reports. The architecture of the 3.8 V6 in the Grand Prix is over 30 years old. W/ 3.8 liters of displacement, it struggles to make 200 hp. So yeah, that's old. That's outdated. That's weak. Or how about the Mustang, whichuntil 2005's redesign, used the same basic chasis and underpinnings since 1979. That's oldand outdated.
Andwhen did I say you were racist??? If you're a genius like you claim, you should know the term "prejudice" doesn't necessarily refer to race.
And yeah, I do know a lot about cars. More than you and all of your other worthless, douchebag, midlife crisis, balding buddies put together. ***got.
The problem is the "reasons" you hate "rice" are pointless and retarded.
But it doesn't matter though, because you used foul language in your last post. So it was automatically illogical. I wouldn't even have replied if it weren't for the simple fact that I love getting on here every day and completely PWNING a total moron...........
you are dumb dumb dumb, read here in my post, obviously you can't read. because i quoted what I said, and here it is again for you. ask a buddy to read it for you. read the bold words,
and yes you have really powned me, i just feel so sad in my life knowing that a car detailer is calling me names. ouch, oh no, i think i'm going to cry.
and my reasons for hating rice are pointless and retarded?
I guess wanting to not screw our own people out of a job up at detroit and around the country is retarded? I guess telling americans who work their butt off making vehicles for you, that they don't know how to build vehicles is ok then. I guess not wanting foreign brands to take over our own country's brands if retarded? I guess I just don't like toyota because their posers and liars, and that's just pointless too right? wow your right, seems like my reasons are just retarded. Guess I"m just all American and a patriot, obviously your not, and what's funny is your on a Dodge forum. You say you don't necessarily like them any better, yet you stand up for them constantly throwing profanity like a little punk. and no I"m not some old dude either. I'm in my 20s.
here's my families vehicles in response to the stealth- i guess I'm only gettin about 15 in the last 10 yrs, sry
06 dodge ram trx4 off road
05 colorado z71
05 gmc canyon off road
05 accord loaded-PIECE OF JUNK AND EXPENSIVE over 30k NEVER WILL I BUY ANOTHER RICE AGAIN-leather came unstitched first month, sunroof leaked, dash cracked, and it rode like a tank
04 buick rainier
02 Durango 5.9l
01 camaro ss
01 mustang
01 dakota rt
01 Honda Accord-JUNK AGAIN-dash cracks first month
00 Dodge Ram 5.9l
99Camry loaded-PIECE OF JUNK, paint chips off in first months
98 Tahoe
97 SIlverado 2500 7.4l
97 Dodge Ram 5.9l
ALL BRAND NEW FROM DEALER
well those are mine and my families the last 10 years. So when people say I don't know what I"m talking about, hah. Here's my experience. I challenge anyone to have had more experience than me in 10 years. I had 3 ricers, 2 accords and a Camry, and each one was krappier than the next, and I will NEVER buy another one again. That's why I hate rice, is because it's been junk in my expeience. Not just some random idea i had one day like a lot of people. alright, well
71 road runner, gotta disagree than any car 15-25 years old is a classic. IN that case, a honda station wagon is a classic? how about them ford pinto? maybe the z line is a classic foreign car.
grungerock, i like what you said, people are mindless sheep, because they are. they sit in front of the computer or the tv, listening to what people tell them about vehicles, and then they believe it. ANYBODY EVER HEARD OF BIAS? most of the companies that review cars today are bias and hate gas guzzling cars, so they dis ameerican cars, and say that toyotas and hondas are so much better in every way. I realize that motor trend finally gave the silverado truck of the year, but did you guys see that the ridgeline was the 'truck of the year". How can anyone even listen to people who would give a front wheel drive v6 the truck of the year? Member JD power giving kia initial quality? KIA IS THE BIGGEST KRAPPER BRAND THERE IS. So people quit listening to opinions and polls and magazines, listen to what you have bought that is new. anybody know more than me from that standpoint? i doubt it
ORIGINAL: THE STUD
you are dumb dumb dumb, read here in my post, obviously you can't read. because i quoted what I said, and here it is again for you. ask a buddy to read it for you. read the bold words,
and yes you have really powned me, i just feel so sad in my life knowing that a car detailer is calling me names. ouch, oh no, i think i'm going to cry.
and my reasons for hating rice are pointless and retarded?
I guess wanting to not screw our own people out of a job up at detroit and around the country is retarded? I guess telling americans who work their butt off making vehicles for you, that they don't know how to build vehicles is ok then. I guess not wanting foreign brands to take over our own country's brands if retarded? I guess I just don't like toyota because their posers and liars, and that's just pointless too right? wow your right, seems like my reasons are just retarded. Guess I"m just all American and a patriot, obviously your not, and what's funny is your on a Dodge forum. You say you don't necessarily like them any better, yet you stand up for them constantly throwing profanity like a little punk. and no I"m not some old dude either. I'm in my 20s.
here's my families vehicles in response to the stealth- i guess I'm only gettin about 15 in the last 10 yrs, sry
06 dodge ram trx4 off road
05 colorado z71
05 gmc canyon off road
05 accord loaded-PIECE OF JUNK AND EXPENSIVE over 30k NEVER WILL I BUY ANOTHER RICE AGAIN-leather came unstitched first month, sunroof leaked, dash cracked, and it rode like a tank
04 buick rainier
02 Durango 5.9l
01 camaro ss
01 mustang
01 dakota rt
01 Honda Accord-JUNK AGAIN-dash cracks first month
00 Dodge Ram 5.9l
99Camry loaded-PIECE OF JUNK, paint chips off in first months
98 Tahoe
97 SIlverado 2500 7.4l
97 Dodge Ram 5.9l
ALL BRAND NEW FROM DEALER
well those are mine and my families the last 10 years. So when people say I don't know what I"m talking about, hah. Here's my experience. I challenge anyone to have had more experience than me in 10 years. I had 3 ricers, 2 accords and a Camry, and each one was krappier than the next, and I will NEVER buy another one again. That's why I hate rice, is because it's been junk in my expeience. Not just some random idea i had one day like a lot of people. alright, well
71 road runner, gotta disagree than any car 15-25 years old is a classic. IN that case, a honda station wagon is a classic? how about them ford pinto? maybe the z line is a classic foreign car.
grungerock, i like what you said, people are mindless sheep, because they are. they sit in front of the computer or the tv, listening to what people tell them about vehicles, and then they believe it. ANYBODY EVER HEARD OF BIAS? most of the companies that review cars today are bias and hate gas guzzling cars, so they dis ameerican cars, and say that toyotas and hondas are so much better in every way. I realize that motor trend finally gave the silverado truck of the year, but did you guys see that the ridgeline was the 'truck of the year". How can anyone even listen to people who would give a front wheel drive v6 the truck of the year? Member JD power giving kia initial quality? KIA IS THE BIGGEST KRAPPER BRAND THERE IS. So people quit listening to opinions and polls and magazines, listen to what you have bought that is new. anybody know more than me from that standpoint? i doubt it
ORIGINAL: scg87
Well look at that, I DID read the post after all.Check the bold section of text, dummy.
And of the ones I listed, I stated which ones I bought new.
Me talking about American cars w/ outdated platforms and engines, resale values, etc, is NOT an opinion. How about you read up on some J D Power, and other consumer reports. The architecture of the 3.8 V6 in the Grand Prix is over 30 years old. W/ 3.8 liters of displacement, it struggles to make 200 hp. So yeah, that's old. That's outdated. That's weak. Or how about the Mustang, whichuntil 2005's redesign, used the same basic chasis and underpinnings since 1979. That's oldand outdated.
Andwhen did I say you were racist??? If you're a genius like you claim, you should know the term "prejudice" doesn't necessarily refer to race.
And yeah, I do know a lot about cars. More than you and all of your other worthless, douchebag, midlife crisis, balding buddies put together. ***got.
The problem is the "reasons" you hate "rice" are pointless and retarded.
But it doesn't matter though, because you used foul language in your last post. So it was automatically illogical. I wouldn't even have replied if it weren't for the simple fact that I love getting on here every day and completely PWNING a total moron...........
ORIGINAL: THE STUD
your a freakin looney. thats all i have to say to u. u don't know anything u yourself say. raging lunatic. yikes.
you don't make one valid point except your foul language which shows your low intelligence. i feel stupider for reading and even replying to your trashy level, but a freak like you can't go unchecked forever. what, ur some dumb kid who owns a little ricer and thinks he knows something?
how many cars u owned? try 20 brand new in the last 15 years. oh what you can't? didn't think so psycho.what's ur basis, the whopping 2 or 3 used cars you've maybe owned?
Hey rice lover, being narrow minded is being stupid. Your very stupid. U think that being narrow minded is telling people to quit living in the twisted media induced hypnotic state that rice is better is narrow minded? man i don't know what's wrong with you, but u have nothing productive to add except your random blabber I can't half way through.
Wanna know why those cars from classic aren't around anymore? cause idiots like u went out and started buying hondas and toyotas when gas went up, then they went out and bought them when they were told that their quality was better. if you wanna know who put these classics in the history books, take a look at yourself.
oh and electric cars are a joke, and why did u say i thought somebody was a terrorist? man you are nuts. GO BACK HOME TO MOMMY AND LEARN HOW TO THINK PROPERLY
freak
if you'd like to continue discussing this with a genius with 165 iq, go ahead, if I can find one interesting logical thing u say, I might just slam you, so you quit talking **** you hipocrit
oh and ur really dumb if you think a brand is american cause it builds an assembly plant here, talk about buying their propoganda. they assemble what they made in their own countries, so their american?lol your gullable
and how many of these new "american ****ty cars" have you owned? i mean real ones, not cobalts or tiny focuses. give me what u know from experience all knowing one. list ur new from dealer vehicles that you've had. go ahead, make a fool of yourself
I'm not a car enthusiast? lol, that's beyond crazy. you should be committed.
your a freakin looney. thats all i have to say to u. u don't know anything u yourself say. raging lunatic. yikes.
you don't make one valid point except your foul language which shows your low intelligence. i feel stupider for reading and even replying to your trashy level, but a freak like you can't go unchecked forever. what, ur some dumb kid who owns a little ricer and thinks he knows something?
how many cars u owned? try 20 brand new in the last 15 years. oh what you can't? didn't think so psycho.what's ur basis, the whopping 2 or 3 used cars you've maybe owned?
Hey rice lover, being narrow minded is being stupid. Your very stupid. U think that being narrow minded is telling people to quit living in the twisted media induced hypnotic state that rice is better is narrow minded? man i don't know what's wrong with you, but u have nothing productive to add except your random blabber I can't half way through.
Wanna know why those cars from classic aren't around anymore? cause idiots like u went out and started buying hondas and toyotas when gas went up, then they went out and bought them when they were told that their quality was better. if you wanna know who put these classics in the history books, take a look at yourself.
oh and electric cars are a joke, and why did u say i thought somebody was a terrorist? man you are nuts. GO BACK HOME TO MOMMY AND LEARN HOW TO THINK PROPERLY
freak
if you'd like to continue discussing this with a genius with 165 iq, go ahead, if I can find one interesting logical thing u say, I might just slam you, so you quit talking **** you hipocrit
oh and ur really dumb if you think a brand is american cause it builds an assembly plant here, talk about buying their propoganda. they assemble what they made in their own countries, so their american?lol your gullable
and how many of these new "american ****ty cars" have you owned? i mean real ones, not cobalts or tiny focuses. give me what u know from experience all knowing one. list ur new from dealer vehicles that you've had. go ahead, make a fool of yourself
I'm not a car enthusiast? lol, that's beyond crazy. you should be committed.
And of the ones I listed, I stated which ones I bought new.
Me talking about American cars w/ outdated platforms and engines, resale values, etc, is NOT an opinion. How about you read up on some J D Power, and other consumer reports. The architecture of the 3.8 V6 in the Grand Prix is over 30 years old. W/ 3.8 liters of displacement, it struggles to make 200 hp. So yeah, that's old. That's outdated. That's weak. Or how about the Mustang, whichuntil 2005's redesign, used the same basic chasis and underpinnings since 1979. That's oldand outdated.
Andwhen did I say you were racist??? If you're a genius like you claim, you should know the term "prejudice" doesn't necessarily refer to race.
And yeah, I do know a lot about cars. More than you and all of your other worthless, douchebag, midlife crisis, balding buddies put together. ***got.
The problem is the "reasons" you hate "rice" are pointless and retarded.
But it doesn't matter though, because you used foul language in your last post. So it was automatically illogical. I wouldn't even have replied if it weren't for the simple fact that I love getting on here every day and completely PWNING a total moron...........
you are dumb dumb dumb, read here in my post, obviously you can't read. because i quoted what I said, and here it is again for you. ask a buddy to read it for you. read the bold words,
and yes you have really powned me, i just feel so sad in my life knowing that a car detailer is calling me names. ouch, oh no, i think i'm going to cry.
and my reasons for hating rice are pointless and retarded?
I guess wanting to not screw our own people out of a job up at detroit and around the country is retarded? I guess telling americans who work their butt off making vehicles for you, that they don't know how to build vehicles is ok then. I guess not wanting foreign brands to take over our own country's brands if retarded? I guess I just don't like toyota because their posers and liars, and that's just pointless too right? wow your right, seems like my reasons are just retarded. Guess I"m just all American and a patriot, obviously your not, and what's funny is your on a Dodge forum. You say you don't necessarily like them any better, yet you stand up for them constantly throwing profanity like a little punk. and no I"m not some old dude either. I'm in my 20s.
here's my families vehicles in response to the stealth- i guess I'm only gettin about 15 in the last 10 yrs, sry
06 dodge ram trx4 off road
05 colorado z71
05 gmc canyon off road
05 accord loaded-PIECE OF JUNK AND EXPENSIVE over 30k NEVER WILL I BUY ANOTHER RICE AGAIN-leather came unstitched first month, sunroof leaked, dash cracked, and it rode like a tank
04 buick rainier
02 Durango 5.9l
01 camaro ss
01 mustang
01 dakota rt
01 Honda Accord-JUNK AGAIN-dash cracks first month
00 Dodge Ram 5.9l
99Camry loaded-PIECE OF JUNK, paint chips off in first months
98 Tahoe
97 SIlverado 2500 7.4l
97 Dodge Ram 5.9l
ALL BRAND NEW FROM DEALER
well those are mine and my families the last 10 years. So when people say I don't know what I"m talking about, hah. Here's my experience. I challenge anyone to have had more experience than me in 10 years. I had 3 ricers, 2 accords and a Camry, and each one was krappier than the next, and I will NEVER buy another one again. That's why I hate rice, is because it's been junk in my expeience. Not just some random idea i had one day like a lot of people. alright, well
71 road runner, gotta disagree than any car 15-25 years old is a classic. IN that case, a honda station wagon is a classic? how about them ford pinto? maybe the z line is a classic foreign car.
grungerock, i like what you said, people are mindless sheep, because they are. they sit in front of the computer or the tv, listening to what people tell them about vehicles, and then they believe it. ANYBODY EVER HEARD OF BIAS? most of the companies that review cars today are bias and hate gas guzzling cars, so they dis ameerican cars, and say that toyotas and hondas are so much better in every way. I realize that motor trend finally gave the silverado truck of the year, but did you guys see that the ridgeline was the 'truck of the year". How can anyone even listen to people who would give a front wheel drive v6 the truck of the year? Member JD power giving kia initial quality? KIA IS THE BIGGEST KRAPPER BRAND THERE IS. So people quit listening to opinions and polls and magazines, listen to what you have bought that is new. anybody know more than me from that standpoint? i doubt it
Oh, and for the last time, I'm not a detailer anymore, I'm a jet mechanic in the Air Force.
ORIGINAL: thestealth
Does your family still own all those cars?
Does your family still own all those cars?
alright, finally dude, but hey if 3 new cars from toyota and honda(suppose to be the highest quality ones) suck, then how can the kias and hyuandais be anything descent at all? I made you mad? lol, i never even talked 2 u before and u came on here and cussed me up one side and down the other. Finally the hostility is over, and this useless thread can go back into hibernation i hope. points i wanted to make were for people to experience these vehicles themselves, not listen to a tv screen. I want our boys in detroit to have jobs in the future and for them to know that americans aren't pissing on them by buying tin cans on wheels. that's all i wanted to say.
That's what I thought. How can you say how great all those vehicles are when you (your family) only owned them for 3-5 years? Any car should be reliable and trouble free within their warranty period.
ORIGINAL: thestealth
That's what I thought. How can you say how great all those vehicles are when you (your family) only owned them for 3-5 years? Any car should be reliable and trouble free within their warranty period.
That's what I thought. How can you say how great all those vehicles are when you (your family) only owned them for 3-5 years? Any car should be reliable and trouble free within their warranty period.
6 people, 15 cars, 10 years. I'm sorry, but you are not qualified to judge the long term reliability of cars. Short term doesn't mean squat to me, since the problems you listed should be covered under warranty, and again, the problems sound like workmanship issues. Those are not catastrophic failures that left you stranded by the side of the road, merely inconveniences (granted, they shouldn't have surfaced that quickly on a new vehicle).
To answer my question (that you seemed to avoid), Accords are built in Ohio and Camrys in Kentucky....and just so you know (from earlier in the thread) Saabs are made in Sweden.
To answer my question (that you seemed to avoid), Accords are built in Ohio and Camrys in Kentucky....and just so you know (from earlier in the thread) Saabs are made in Sweden.


