This is what we have in our Magnums. Does anyone know how much and how long the data is stored, and how to delete it? Here's an article about the boxes. What does everyone think of these?

The Spy Under the Hood
By THANE PETERSON




Few car owners know of the data-collection devices in their vehicles. While valuable research tools, they may also be threats to privacy.


If you're like most people, you don't know there is a device in your vehicle that, in the event of an accident, stores information about such things as speed, throttle position, braking, and airbag deployment. It can even tell if seatbelts were buckled.


Two-thirds of the new cars sold in the U.S. and some 30 million vehicles already on the road contain such devices, officially known as event data recorders. Information from the black boxes can be critical evidence in criminal cases and lawsuits, helping convict speeders and drunk drivers and exonerate the falsely accused. The auto and insurance industries also believe such data-tracking could be invaluable in improving traffic laws and designing safer vehicles.


NEW LAWS. But collecting such data opens up a minefield of privacy issues, say privacy advocates. John Soma, a law professor and executive director of the Privacy Foundation at the University of Denver, fears an Orwellian 1984 scenario could develop if consumers aren't better informed about the boxes and the kind and availability of the information collected.


State governments are stepping in to try to prevent misuse of black-box information. California, North Dakota, and Arkansas have already passed laws regulating use of data from auto black boxes, and legislatures in a number of other states -- including New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Texas -- are considering similar rules.

In general, the new state laws greatly restrict access to the data without a court order or authorization from the car's owner or operator. The Arkansas law, which takes effect Aug. 1, specifically grants ownership of the data to the owner, renter, or lessor of the car -- even if, say, the car is totaled after an accident and becomes the property of an insurance company.


"I didn't want some poor soul to have an accident and have this information used against him without his even knowing it was there," says Arkansas State Senator Jimmy Jeffress (D), who pushed the bill through.


DATA LOOP. The insurance and auto industries believe they can easily accommodate the concerns of privacy advocates. For one thing, black boxes are set up to store a tiny amount of information. "It's important for people to understand that they don't record conversations or information on where you are driving or anything like that," says Alan Adler, a General Motors (GM ) spokesman.


Typically, the devices record data about things like auto speed and airbag status in a loop that is constantly erased -- 5 seconds to 10 seconds worth of information is permanently stored only if an airbag deployment or rapid braking indicates that an accident may have occurred. Indeed, when it comes to airbags and seatbelts, Ford's (F ) system only records one-tenth of a second's worth of data before and after an accident.


Auto and insurance industry spokesmen say they have no problems with car owners or operators owning the data in the boxes, as long as it can be subpoenaed after an accident, like any other evidence. "Our position is that it's the customer's data," says Ford spokesman Dan Jarvis.

MYSTERY BOX. However, insurance companies also want to ensure that information from the boxes be made available to researchers so it can be used to improve traffic safety and automobile design. David Snyder, vice-president and general counsel at the American Insurance Assn., suggests that a federal agency such as the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration be allowed to collect the data -- stripped of anything that would identify specific individuals -- so it can be pooled in a database for use by safety researchers. "There's a huge potential public safety benefit to be derived from the data," Snyder says.


Privacy advocates contend that companies and the government could be doing much more to protect the rights of consumers. For instance, one reason most people don't know about the black boxes is that information about them is usually only disclosed in automobile owners manuals -- which few car-owners ever bother to read.


Arkansas' new law goes a step further by requiring the seller of any car to provide the buyer with a certificate disclosing the existence of the black box in the car. Some critics of the systems even suggest that black boxes should come with a cut-off switch like airbags, so owners could turn off the boxes if they wanted to -- an idea strongly opposed by insurance companies because it might significantly limit the amount of data collected. Such a requirement would also pose problems for some manufacturers. The black box in GM cars can't be turned off without disabling the airbag, for instance.


WHERE WILL IT STOP? What most worries privacy experts is the potential for abuse of black boxes as technology evolves. "Once your start collecting information, there's always an impulse to collect more and more," says David Fraser, head of the privacy practice at the law firm of McInnes Cooper in Canada, where privacy laws are stricter than in the U.S.


For instance, auto black boxes could easily be made far more elaborate by tying them into, say, in-car navigation or cell-phone systems. Indeed, long-haul trucking companies now routinely use sophisticated black boxes to monitor their drivers' driving habits in great detail.


Some insurance companies have run experiments in which they offer rate reductions to customers who agree to have their driving habits monitored by advanced black boxes -- leading to concerns the companies could structure rates to punish customers who don't agree to let their cars be monitored. California and New York have already passed laws prohibiting insurance companies from using black boxes in that way.


LEGAL "HODGEPODGE." Companies say they have no intention of making the boxes much more elaborate. "We're sensitive to privacy concerns," Snyder says, adding that "it might lead to a huge reaction from privacy advocates and the general public."


But Jeffress predicts that before long, the federal government will have to step in with a national data privacy law governing auto black boxes and other similar data-collection devices. "Otherwise, we're just going to have a hodgepodge of state rules," he says. And that won't serve the interests of either business or the public.

 

I think it might be illegal to tamper with it even though it's your vehicle. Sort of like tampering with the airbags. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with it.



-Matt-

 

I think these boxes have been around for a while now, I do not think it will become routine (or legal) to check the computer for minor traffic violations, etc. Now, once they start putting GPS in all cars, you guys that go to places where you should not really be going to better start taking a taxi....

I read somewhere that a Ford Escort has more processing (computer) power on it than the first lunar lander, or maybe it was Apollo, but you get the idea. Gotta do SOMETHING with all them 1's and zeros.

 

Minor traffic violations no they won't check but a major one with lawsuits yes they will supoena it. Like yeah I saw the car and I was braking as hard as I could. Problem is the throttle position sensor (which you can read yourself while you drive) was at 100%. Uh oh - lost that suit.

 

"There's a huge potential public safety benefit to be derived from the data," Snyder says.

He's right.

 

the only system that i have heard about in any detail was in a firebird, and that system (from what i read in the paper) measures the speed at which a car is travelling every time the ABS engages, and when the airbags deploy. there was a kid in a firebird who was flying along some residentail road, and someone back out in front of him in a small conpact, like a civic or metro, and he hit it so hard it destroyed both cars, killing both passengers in the compact. the kid driving the firebird made it through without any major injury and was quoted as "going 35 or 40 miles per hour"....when his computer was checked, it turns out that the airbags opened at like 125 mph...he was charged, and i believe convicted, or two counts of vehicular homicide.

big brother hard at work. it is my understanding that my RT has something similar to that.

 

Was the fact that he was convicted of killing two people a bad thing?

 

I think it's a great thing...the only people who should worry about what information the black box is holding are the people who have something to hide. It's not a privacy thing when someone else has been injured or killed or wronged in some way. Big Brother is something to worry about when they start watching your every move when you are in your home. If you aren't at home, you are in public so all bets are off.