i was looking at a dual exhaust and a cold air intake. is that basically a big waste of money? i can get the parts real cheap so if i can even get a minumal gain i might still get them.

 

What I'm trying to say is, that if you mod you 03-05, you will still see the performance gains, the NGC can only change the A/F so much, after that, theres nothing it can do. Which is what the NGC does, it leans or richens the mixture in order to attempt to keep the engine near stock levels, but that does not mean its always works like that.

So like i said, you will probably not see as much gain on an 03-05 than on an 00-02, but you will still see a gain. Oh and i wouldnt mind seeing those dyno charts between an 00-02 and an 03-05 with the exact same mods, running the exact same wheels, same mileage, same everything...

And yes, if you bought a rear section you would see a few HP gain, along with a few HP from the CAI...

 

alright thanks you guys have been very helpful

 

Here is a Dyno of a 04 SXT NGC non-magnum w/AEM Intake, Custom 2.5" catback exhaust(still has stock 2.25" from manifold, and cat), and UDP, oem coil pack, oem 7mm plug wires, and Champion copper plugs.

[IMG]local://upfiles/33897/532FE21D1B5F4881A523F6E3DBA2DBA7.jpg[/IMG]

 

And that proves my point...that SXT with those three mods has a net gain of 10whp (since a bone stock SXT dyno's at around 110whp), if everything you heard about NGC were true, then how did this SXT mysteriously gain 10whp? Apparently our friend the NGC isnt all its cracked up to be...

 

I don't have the base stock dyno, but it was around 115HP. So around $500-$600 on mods were spent, then the money for the dyno time for 5HP!!!!! Woot!!!

I will add, I have neither driven or want to drive an neon with NGC, so my reponses are based on what I have read on the net and discussed with people who have attempted to mod their NGC neons, only to give up and go with a 95-02 neon or boost it.

 

Actually if you do the math, the 132 crank HP with an average 15% drivetrain loss, that comes out to 112whp, 115wtq...and his best run on that dyno was 122whp/126wtq...that would appear to be a 10whp gain, or $50 per WHP. Now that may not seem like a lot, but you must take into account how well the Neon runs out of the box.

A Neon has a very well designed intake and exhaust system compared to a Honda or the other imports that respond very well to bolt-ons...Honda's suck out of the box, they have restrictive intake systems, restricitve exhaust systems, which is why a simple exhaust/intake mod on a Civic yields 10-15whp (and a civic is below 100whp unless its an SI or the new models)...so even with the "dreaded NGC" your still making much more power to the wheels...and after the simple mods, the computer cant do anything to stop power gains from pistons, or new cams, or the UDP, or P&P work, or new heads, or anything like that.

But yes, i agree the only way to see big numbers on an 03+ is to use a F/I application, but that can be said for any 2nd Gen, i cant speak for the N/A capabilities of the 1st gen, but unless your willing to spend $10k to reach 200+whp, you go F/I...and that problem isnt just with the NGC guys, its with every 2nd Gen...

 

Thats why I like the 1st gen, a $3000 turbo kit from Hahn and you're around 225HP.

 

Yeah your just lucky hahn makes a "cheap" kit for you guys, ours is like $4,400 unless you go the cutom SRT route (which is what i'm doing) and that will easily put you in the 225whp range with proper tuning...but yeah, i'm pretty sure the N/A pricetag is high whatever way you go, NGC or not, so just go turbo!! (or SRT-4 engine swap, which also has NGC)

 

What are you talking about? Dodge made it easy for you guys with the SRT-4 motor dropping in and putting a stage 1 pcm with it and young kids irresponsible enough to wreck their SRT-4's!!!!!!