Yes, chemicals are added to ULSD to recover lost lubricity due to the lower sulfur content. Personally, I would not put 2-stroke oil in my diesel tank. The concept is sound, but the problem is with the chemical make-up of the 2-stroke oil. If you think the variances in the additives in gas and diesel are bad, you ain't seen nothing yet. 2-stroke oils vary HUGELY in their chemical additives. So much so that doing something as simple as using a different brand of 2-stroke oil in your weedeater and chainsaw gas will totally scrooge them up. It is common for two different brands of oil used in a single engine to cause gelling and gumming of the oils because of the different chemicals. Imagine what that would do to your CTD if the chemicals in the 2-stroke oil reacted with something in the diesel fuel.

2-stroke oil is a constant topic with my aviation friends since we all fly powered paragliders and our engines are all 2-stroke. There has been a lot of research by the paraglider manufacturers and even by the pilots themselves. It is generally accepted wisdom that once you start your engine on a certain brand/type of 2-stroke oil, you never, ever change to something else without a complete and thorough cleaning of the entire engine and fuel system lest you relegate yourself to the potential of a gummed up (and destroyed) engine. At $5,000 + a pop, these are not cheap engines to be blowing up or burning up because you simply used a different brand of 2-stroke oil.

Never, ever put anything in your tank that isn't designed to be run in your engine. This is especially true with today's complex, electronically controlled engines.

 

First of all, THANK YOU for the very detailed explanation of the various fuels. I've read similar things before, but have become lost in all of the technical jargan. PROPS to you for explaining it all in " Plain English "

Having said that, I have a question or two

You've said that the new ULSD has a lower lubricity than the previous LSD had. Regardless of the reasons why it's lower, I think we all agree that the lubricity is lower

Now then .... you briefly touched on the fact that the various oil companies may or may not add the lubricity and if so,it's really not known or regulated. If that is in fact true, what do YOU reccomend to add the lube back, or are you satisfied that the oil companies are doing their job and protecting my engine?

 

Maybe I'm naive, butI hardly think Cummins would produce and engine that runs on inferior fuel. If they know their engines should go 250,000 miles.. but Valero is refining a fuel that knocks that back to 100,000.. wouldn't there be a huge conflict there? No one knowingly will allow another corporation to ruin their reputation like that.. Specially Cummins with so many over the road rigs running out there that are now forced to run the new fuel. These engines have been tested and re-tested repeatedly at the factory.. and are now being real world tested on a daily basis by trucking companies running millions of miles.. and we all know truckers aren't dumping in 2oz of 2stroke oil per gallonat every fill. LikeI said..maybe I'm naive.. but I'm gonna run straight ULSD and not lose a wink of sleep

 

Perhaps you're right, I dunno. All I know is that when MY Cummis was built, it was built to run on LSD, not ULSD. I'm sure their newer engines are retuned to run on the new stuff, but I dunno about my ole 98.

 

I heard there was a law in which the fuel companies had to at least meat the lubricity of LSD in their ULSD, Is that true? I think I read it in dieselpowermag a couple months back. That is why I haven't been adding many additives. BTCRUZ, it makes sense to me that all companies be required to meet lubricity standards with there fuel, but not cetane rating like you were saying. If that is infact true, what diesel company makes ULSD with the highest cetane rating? Surely someone has compared brands, I mean, there are hundreds of us, a few people haveto of compared milage with brands.

 

When I first started looking into buying my diesel pickup.. I talked to guys that already had them.. They all said to watch whereI bought gas.. that all diesel fuel is not created equal.. I figured the large truck stops would be a good place.. but was told thats not actually the case (I'm not exactly sure what the reasoning is) So far I haven't been able to tell the difference between a good tank or a bad tank andI have tried out a few different places. I know that only a handful of refineries turn out deisel fuel.. so no matter what the brand is.. chances are it came from one of these refineries. each region might have a different mix of additives. It all just makes my mind mush so I'm not going to stress on it.. ignorance is indeed bliss for now

 

Mayfair,

Please re-read. I said the oil companies DO add chemicals to replace the lost lubricity in the ULSD process. What they may or may not add back into the mix are aromatics that are lost in the ULSD process. Those aromatics have a higher energy content than diesel, so when added to the mix, they increase the avilable energy from the fuel. If they are not added back, this would account for lower mileage and/or less power from the engine. What is not known is whether the oil companies will take the extra step to add those aromatics back.

Yes, there are tons and tons of regulations specifying minimum performance standards and the like that oil companies have to meet in order to produce and sell fuels. Those standards are in part due to the automotive companies requirements for it. It's no surprise the demands are usually met, within reason, since many of the automotive companies are heavily invested in the oil industry and vice versa with the governmentoverseeingit. The automotive makers have to meet certain government specified emissions requirements and even mileage requirements (anyone up for a discussion of the CAFE rules?), and in order to do that, they need fuels that help them to do this, so in turn, the oil undustry has specifications they have to meet, etc. The government then relies on other agencies (like the EPA) to monitor air quality and standards for that are defined based on the findings. Those standards/rules, etc may require changes on the part of the auto makers and oil industry so that everything meshes nicely (such as the aforementioned legislation by Clinton-Gore). That however, does not necessarily mean the standards are good, easy or better for yours or my wallet, or even pallatable to our tastes when it comes to vehicle performance. It's partly about concern for our environment and mostly about money.

Killercummins,

I don't know for sure who makes/sells diesel with the highest cetane rating, but if I had to venture a guess, I'd probably nod toward Shell at the moment (based only on whatI know about what is available in my area).Some Shell stations advertise "premium" diesel, and by definition it has to contain higher cetane ratings. The issue, as I noted in my recent experience, is that this premium diesel isB20. That makes senseconsidering bio fules and plant based oilshave naturally higher cetane ratings than petro based oils and fuels. Bio based has a higher oxygen content.

Halfdozenbuzzin,

You are correct. Fuel"formulas" actually do vary on a regional scale. Gasolines sold in the midwest are different than gas sold on the east coast, etc. It's done purposefully due to local environmental conditions. What they all will have in common though are octane/cetane ratings, lubricity and any other rating that is required to meet a specific level. The differences would most likely be in the aromatic and oxygenate content, and other additives such as detergents, etc that may or may not hinder, alter or change performance levels within the varying climate conditions.

Some of those formulas within the same region change a couple times a year as well. For example everyone knows that "winter mix" diesel is sold in the upper states in winter, but we don't see it here in Texas (for obvious reasons).

Sadly, there is no "one" formula or mix for gas and diesel, there's so many variances in them, although they do have to adhere to certain minimum standards. As for diesel varying wildly, I don't know that for sure, but in my experience (having bought diesel for my truck all across the U.S.) I haven't noticed any appreciable differences to the point I worry about any particular brand. The biggest worry I have is water. So for that reason I tend to avoid small, hole-in-the-wall places where the fuel may have been sitting in the storage tanks for a long time. Truck stops probably aren't much to worry about, and in fact might be a better choice since so many trucks roll through those places on a regular basis, fresh fuel is being supplied nearly all the time. This reminds of something else to consider....

Stored gasoline goes bad over time. The smaller the quantity, the faster it goes bad. Octane is lostin storage due to evaporation of the aromatics and oxygenates in the gas. Sunlight will also affect it. For my powered paraglider engine (it's an Italian made2-stroke, 202cc, 28 HP, yet the engine only weighs 27 lbs), I pre-mix my gas in 6 gallon quantities. I use Amsoil Sabre Professional 100:1 mix (yep, one hundred to one!). I put an 8 ounce bottle of oil in 6 gallons of premium pump gas. That produces an actual ratio of 96:1, but close enough. Anyway, I won't use that gas in my PPG if it has been sitting for longer than 3 weeks (stored in my garage away from sunlight). I once used some that had been sitting for about 6 weeks and my engine started knocking and ran very hot. It was all due to octane loss from sitting in the can. Anyhting that sits longer than3 weeks becomes fuel for the weedeater and chainsaw :-)

What I don't know is how long diesel can sit in a small can and still be good. I've never looked into that, but probably should since my tractor isa diesel and I buy diesel in 5 gallon cans to fuel it. I have used diesel as old as 6 months from the can in the tractor and it never so much as hiccupped, so I dunno.

 

every refinery that produces gas also makes deisel
deisel is a byproduct of gasoline production

 

Crude oil, when refined makes all of the petroleum by products as it it is refined.All products come from it at some point along the refining process.In the hierarchy of refined petroleum products from highest to lowest (from a gaseous state, then liquid, to solid) are:natural gas; "wet" natural gas; high-octane aviation gasoline; automotive gasoline; finished kerosene; home heating oil; diesel fuel; industrial fuel oil; finished lubricating oils; waxes and paraffin's; gas oil; coke and finally asphalt.

Diesel fuel lies in the middle of the refined petroleum hierarchy and is considered one of the middle distillates -- slightly heavier than kerosene and slightly lighter than industrial (bunker) fuel oil. Like automotive gasoline, diesel fuel is refined into several sub-categories or grades. From highest to lowest viscosity are Number 1 Diesel Fuel (1-D), Number 2 Diesel Fuel (2-D) and Number 4 Fuel Diesel (4-D). There used to be a Number 3 Diesel Fuel (3-D), but it is no longer refined.

 

I guess by "handful" I meant 145 refineries [sm=oopssign.gif](a bit more than a handful)

but that is down from 254twenty-fiveyears ago