This whole thing reminds me of Enron. Remember when they were shutting down power grids based on speculation of an energy shortage? Thsi whole gas / diesel thing has the same exact stink.

 

Why do you lose hp? I've worked on the engines and I'm told there is no loss of HP compared to Gasoline. I thought the difference was that Natural Gas was richer, although Hyrogen Sulfide is in our work areas a little. I was taught if your teeth start to hurt there is HS(sour gas) around. I did the paper and from everything I read there is no loss if not but like 5hp between a Gas Car and a Natural Gas Car with the same engine. You have to have different injection and fuel tanks is the difference in the vehicles because your feeding it a Gas instead of Liquid. I'm still learning so if you can help me I'll see where I was told or heard wrong. I'm only a first year student but I'm able to take the complete Engine, Turbo, carb., Electric Starter (air starter to), Regulator, Check Valve, Compressor(Ariel, Ajax, and few others) apart and reassemble them. We are in the Electrical side right now which so far is easy because its numbers. E=Volts I=Ohms P=Watts and R=Amps. I x E = P andR x I = E

 

Okay, I've been sitting out on thisdiscussion because I think you guys get sick of my contrarian views, but I feel the need to address this. A few of you have been talking about how there is no shortage of fuel, so someone must be gaming the system and making a fortune off the little guy. There is no shortage because of the laws of supply and demand. The laws of supply and demand always work; you just have to understand the whole story.

Back in the 1970s there was a shortage (after the 1973 oil crisis) because the Federal government instituted price controls on oil. That had the effect of setting an artificially low price on all petroleum products, meaning the price was not market-derived. A market price is the point where the demand and supply curves meet. In the '70s the supply curve shifted to the left (I wish I could show this on a chalkboard).The demand curve stayed constant, and the quantity demanded did notdecrease as much as it should have becaue of the artificially low price. This produced a gap between the quantity demanded and the quantity supplied. For a couple of years there was a shortage of fuel, and Americans had to wait in lines and could only buy on even or odd numbered days.

Another example of government price fixing was when the Federal government set the price paid to farmers for certain agricultural products back in the 1980s. The price paid per gallon of milk was higher than the market was willing to pay. In this case the quantity supplied was higher than the quantity demanded. Bingo, we now have "government cheese" to give to schools, nursing homes, etc.

Today the government does not control the price on oil. This allows the price to increase more, but it's a market price so the quantity supplied is equal to the quantity demanded. Personally I would rather pay $4/gallon for fuel in a free market than have to go to the gas station at 5:00 AM and wait in line for hours, hoping I can fill up before I go to work.

If you want to lower fuel prices in the long run, contact both your US senators and your House rep. Tell them you think the country needs to open up drilling both offshore and in Alaska. Tell them we also need more refineries built. The Democratically controlled Congress has tried to paint the oil companies as the bad guy, and they got a lot of you rubes believing it. The Congress is trying to divert attention away from themselves by turning the oil companies into a red herring, because deep down inside they know they are the cause of the problem. Don't let them get away with it, because they are the only ones who can fix it.

 

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I just going from what the books with them say, maybe were the engine where made to run on gas, propane 2nd and natural as a third choice, so it runs best on gas, loses some on propane and you lose 1kw on natural gas.

All I can do is guess on whythe power is less, I got a Buddie who a gas man and their vans run off either gas or natural, but said he losses power and mileage and even the gas company doesn't run it's vans on natural gas.

So maybe someone with knowledge will jump in.

 

Yea I'm learning and if its worth it compared to Gas to Natural Gas prices I may go the NG route but I will never lose my diesel.

 

I believe the difference in power/mpg between gas, propane, and natural gas is in the btu's supplied by each fuel. Thus the reason heating oil is a little cheaper for heat compared to propane. It gives off more btu's per unit than propane, thus cheaper and more effiecent in the long run. Back in the 1980's I worked for a trash company. They had there trucks converted to run propane (GMC brigaders). On gas they got about 5 mpg and on propane they got 2mpg. But back then propane was dirt cheap thus alot cheaper to run even with the worse mpg and the small loss of power. As for electricity being easy, I=amps not resistance/ohms, and R= resistance/ohms not amps. And Ixe=w unless there is a power factor to figure in for 3 phase power, then the added resistance for distance in the line, etc. R, I, P, and W are figured differently depending on series, parallel, or series/parallel circuits. There is a pie chart that has all the equations to make finding the right formula easier. You'll kill a small forest figuring out 'just the numbers'. There's alot of algerbra and trig to electicity, but its fun and you will enjoy it, I do (idustrial electrician 14 yrs.). As a side note, altenative fuels in my opinion are just a crutch to get by for the near future. I believe electricity is the future, maybe not for trucks, but for small cars I think its the way to go. Plus, I could fill up for free at work!

 

Why then have some cities gotten rid of their electric powered trolly's in favor of diesel busses?