question on warrenty
#1
11-09-2005 | 06:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 80
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From: Maryland
question on warrenty
I have a 2005 2500 ctd qc. 4x4.
I really want to start getting some more pep out of her but I am damn scared about voiding my warrenty. The dealer told me that their is some chips and mods that I can do tha will not void it but what are they??
Will a programer void my warrenty????
I have tried searching but fail for the results I needed.
Thank Guys,
Charles
I really want to start getting some more pep out of her but I am damn scared about voiding my warrenty. The dealer told me that their is some chips and mods that I can do tha will not void it but what are they??
Will a programer void my warrenty????
I have tried searching but fail for the results I needed.
Thank Guys,
Charles
#2
11-09-2005 | 06:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
RE: question on warrenty
I ALSO HAVE A 2005 QUAD MYSELF WITH ABOUT 700 MILES ON IT I'M [CONSIDERING ONE OF THE MODS FROM QUADZILLAPOWER.COM.
I GOT THE NAME FROM DREW ON THIS FORUM.
THE BEAUTY IS YOU JUST PLUG IT INTO THE COMPUTER DIAGNOSTICS PLUG WHICH IS IN THE CAB.
WHICH MEANS IF YOU EVER GO IN FOR SERVICE YOU JUST UNPLUG IT.
I KNOW THERE ARE OTHERS LIKE THE THE ONE MADE BY BULLY DOG.
CAN'T REALLY SAY FOR SURE ABOUT EITHER ONE BECAUSE I HANEN'T PURCHASED ONE YET.
BUT I DID SPEAKE TO HE PEOPLE AT QUADZILLA AND THEY SOUNDED LIKE THEY NKEW WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, BUT AGAIN THEY BETTER SOUND LIKE THEY DO BECAUSE THEY ARE SELLING THE PRODUCT.
DON'T KNOW IF THIS HELPS AT ALL BUT IT'S MY 2 CENTS WORTH.
GOOD LUCK AND LET ME KNOW WHAT HAPPENS,
MARK
I GOT THE NAME FROM DREW ON THIS FORUM.
THE BEAUTY IS YOU JUST PLUG IT INTO THE COMPUTER DIAGNOSTICS PLUG WHICH IS IN THE CAB.
WHICH MEANS IF YOU EVER GO IN FOR SERVICE YOU JUST UNPLUG IT.
I KNOW THERE ARE OTHERS LIKE THE THE ONE MADE BY BULLY DOG.
CAN'T REALLY SAY FOR SURE ABOUT EITHER ONE BECAUSE I HANEN'T PURCHASED ONE YET.
BUT I DID SPEAKE TO HE PEOPLE AT QUADZILLA AND THEY SOUNDED LIKE THEY NKEW WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, BUT AGAIN THEY BETTER SOUND LIKE THEY DO BECAUSE THEY ARE SELLING THE PRODUCT.
DON'T KNOW IF THIS HELPS AT ALL BUT IT'S MY 2 CENTS WORTH.
GOOD LUCK AND LET ME KNOW WHAT HAPPENS,
MARK
#3
11-09-2005 | 10:51 PM
Professional
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 117
Likes: 1
From: 33.43.342, 84.21.602
RE: question on warrenty
you have three different ways to get more power out of the engine with chips. you have pressure, timeing, and duration boxes. some boxes rely on just one of these factors, some rely on all three. most of the cheap boxes rely soley on increasing the pressure of the injector pump by mostly boost fooling. these boxes can be VERY dangerous to the engine and can damage the injector pump, high pressure valve on the rail, and the injecotrs themselves. but they also create MASSIVE amounts of power. your better boxes utilize a portion of all three areas. however the best boxes to buy only adjust timeing and duration. this way you are not increasing the pressure the injector pump is haveing to generate and you are not stressing the high pressure valve.
The Quad box is a good box, and they have OUTSTANDING customer service. this box unilizes a portion of all three areas to increase power, however this box does not increase rail pressure like some other boxes and downloaders.
two other boxes I have been eyeing are the Van Aaken C3.2 and the TST Power Max. these two boxes use only timeing and duration. The Van Aaken box is very well engineered and leaves by far the smallest footprint on the trucks PCM. the TST box creates insane power that has the capability of blowing the stock turbo melting valves, and basicaly destroying the engine if you are not carefull on level 10. also the TST box has the most adjustments of any box, 10 horsepower settings and 10 torque settings. most guys that use this box on levels of 6 and higher generaly have high flow fuel pumps, larger injectors, larger turbos and even some headwork done. which means it is a good box to get if you plan on doing other modifications in the future since you can grow into the box.
the best thing to do is to call each vendor and see what you get.
hopefully this will get you started on the right direction.
The Quad box is a good box, and they have OUTSTANDING customer service. this box unilizes a portion of all three areas to increase power, however this box does not increase rail pressure like some other boxes and downloaders.
two other boxes I have been eyeing are the Van Aaken C3.2 and the TST Power Max. these two boxes use only timeing and duration. The Van Aaken box is very well engineered and leaves by far the smallest footprint on the trucks PCM. the TST box creates insane power that has the capability of blowing the stock turbo melting valves, and basicaly destroying the engine if you are not carefull on level 10. also the TST box has the most adjustments of any box, 10 horsepower settings and 10 torque settings. most guys that use this box on levels of 6 and higher generaly have high flow fuel pumps, larger injectors, larger turbos and even some headwork done. which means it is a good box to get if you plan on doing other modifications in the future since you can grow into the box.
the best thing to do is to call each vendor and see what you get.
hopefully this will get you started on the right direction.
#4
11-10-2005 | 05:00 PM
Professional
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From:
RE: question on warrenty
FYI, I pulled this from the K&N site to help explain what many misunderstand
Letter from K&N Regarding U.S. Vehicle Warranty and K&N Replacement Filters
Dear K&N Consumer:
K&N Engineering, Inc., is informed that some automobile dealers and manufacturers are telling their customers that the factory warranty on their motor vehicles is “void,” if an original equipment (OE) replacement air filter, manufactured by K&N, has been installed on their vehicles. K&N finds such instances disturbing, and while it does not purport to give legal advice, K&N would like to refer you to the federal Consumer Product Warranties law, often referred to as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c), as follows:
“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if –
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.”
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer. K&N is unaware of any exemption or waiver granted by the FTC to any motor vehicle manufacturer, which pertains to air filters or oil filters.
K&N interprets this law to also prohibit the motor vehicle manufacturer from restricting your use of a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, etc. K&N’s interpretation of this law is consistent with the interpretation given it by the FTC, the government agency responsible for the interpretation and enforcement of this federal law.
The rules and regulations adopted by the FTC, to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700.10, which states, in relevant part (with specific language highlighted by K&N), as follows:
“(c) No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.”
We think this FTC rule is pretty clear and unambiguous. Please note that the FTC requires the “warrantor” (this would, generally, be your motor vehicle manufacturer) to “demonstrate” that the defect in or damage to your vehicle was caused by your installation or use of a K&N air or oil filter, or other “unauthorized” part, before a warranty claim can be denied. We contend that this requires credible proof as to the cause of a failure and not merely your dealer’s guess, speculation or unfounded opinion as to the cause.
Therefore, K&N considers any threat to void your factory warranty, or the actual voiding of your factory warranty, solely for the installation of a K&N replacement air filter or oil filter, to be a violation of federal law.
The foregoing addresses only your rights and protection under federal law. Of course, you may have greater rights under the consumer warranty laws applicable in your state.
If you have encountered a motor vehicle dealer, who has failed and refused to “demonstrate” or prove, as federal law requires, that your K&N air filter necessitated a repair for which warranty coverage has been denied, or a manufacturer, who refuses to perform warranty repairs on your vehicle, merely because you have installed a K&N replacement air filter or based on inaccurate information from your dealer, then we ask that you request that the dealer or manufacturer set forth, in writing, the warranty denial, together with a written statement as to the specific reasons for the denial of warranty repairs, and that you send a copy of this written statement to K&N. We also ask that you direct your dealer and manufacturer to the federal law quoted above. While K&N cannot act as your legal advocate or assume responsibility for enforcing your warranty rights under state and federal law, we will write to the dealership and to your motor vehicle manufacturer and insist that they provide a legal basis for their position. We have been successful in numerous instances in challenging the conclusions of dealerships and convincing manufacturers that the denial of warranty repairs was improper, which has resulted in letters of apology from dealers and reimbursements by dealers or manufacturers to consumers for those repairs.
In addition to any informal action K&N may take, you should consult an attorney and various state and federal agencies, who may be able to assist you in protecting and enforcing your warranty rights, if you encounter a motor vehicle dealer’s or manufacturer’s refusal to honor your motor vehicle warranty.
Please keep in mind that a motor vehicle dealer is, generally, not the “warrantor” of your vehicle. Your dealer may be assisting you as much as possible in getting the manufacturer to cover repairs of your vehicle under warranty, but the factory may still refuse to cover the repairs. If this happens, then there may be nothing further that the dealership can do, and it should not be blamed for the actions of your vehicle’s warrantor. A dealership’s control over the approval of a warranty repair is usually limited to properly diagnosing and reporting the cause of the repair. K&N only takes issue with those dealerships who advise consumers that the mere installation of a K&N air filter on a vehicle “voids” the factory warranty, or they convey to the manufacturer an unsubstantiated opinion or conclusion that a K&N air filter caused an engine or component failure, without any objective proof to support such a statement, which results in the denial of a legitimate warranty repair.
Sincerely,
STEVE ROGERS,
President & CEO
K&N Engineering, Inc.
Letter from K&N Regarding U.S. Vehicle Warranty and K&N Replacement Filters
Dear K&N Consumer:
K&N Engineering, Inc., is informed that some automobile dealers and manufacturers are telling their customers that the factory warranty on their motor vehicles is “void,” if an original equipment (OE) replacement air filter, manufactured by K&N, has been installed on their vehicles. K&N finds such instances disturbing, and while it does not purport to give legal advice, K&N would like to refer you to the federal Consumer Product Warranties law, often referred to as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c), as follows:
“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if –
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.”
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer. K&N is unaware of any exemption or waiver granted by the FTC to any motor vehicle manufacturer, which pertains to air filters or oil filters.
K&N interprets this law to also prohibit the motor vehicle manufacturer from restricting your use of a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, etc. K&N’s interpretation of this law is consistent with the interpretation given it by the FTC, the government agency responsible for the interpretation and enforcement of this federal law.
The rules and regulations adopted by the FTC, to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700.10, which states, in relevant part (with specific language highlighted by K&N), as follows:
“(c) No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.”
We think this FTC rule is pretty clear and unambiguous. Please note that the FTC requires the “warrantor” (this would, generally, be your motor vehicle manufacturer) to “demonstrate” that the defect in or damage to your vehicle was caused by your installation or use of a K&N air or oil filter, or other “unauthorized” part, before a warranty claim can be denied. We contend that this requires credible proof as to the cause of a failure and not merely your dealer’s guess, speculation or unfounded opinion as to the cause.
Therefore, K&N considers any threat to void your factory warranty, or the actual voiding of your factory warranty, solely for the installation of a K&N replacement air filter or oil filter, to be a violation of federal law.
The foregoing addresses only your rights and protection under federal law. Of course, you may have greater rights under the consumer warranty laws applicable in your state.
If you have encountered a motor vehicle dealer, who has failed and refused to “demonstrate” or prove, as federal law requires, that your K&N air filter necessitated a repair for which warranty coverage has been denied, or a manufacturer, who refuses to perform warranty repairs on your vehicle, merely because you have installed a K&N replacement air filter or based on inaccurate information from your dealer, then we ask that you request that the dealer or manufacturer set forth, in writing, the warranty denial, together with a written statement as to the specific reasons for the denial of warranty repairs, and that you send a copy of this written statement to K&N. We also ask that you direct your dealer and manufacturer to the federal law quoted above. While K&N cannot act as your legal advocate or assume responsibility for enforcing your warranty rights under state and federal law, we will write to the dealership and to your motor vehicle manufacturer and insist that they provide a legal basis for their position. We have been successful in numerous instances in challenging the conclusions of dealerships and convincing manufacturers that the denial of warranty repairs was improper, which has resulted in letters of apology from dealers and reimbursements by dealers or manufacturers to consumers for those repairs.
In addition to any informal action K&N may take, you should consult an attorney and various state and federal agencies, who may be able to assist you in protecting and enforcing your warranty rights, if you encounter a motor vehicle dealer’s or manufacturer’s refusal to honor your motor vehicle warranty.
Please keep in mind that a motor vehicle dealer is, generally, not the “warrantor” of your vehicle. Your dealer may be assisting you as much as possible in getting the manufacturer to cover repairs of your vehicle under warranty, but the factory may still refuse to cover the repairs. If this happens, then there may be nothing further that the dealership can do, and it should not be blamed for the actions of your vehicle’s warrantor. A dealership’s control over the approval of a warranty repair is usually limited to properly diagnosing and reporting the cause of the repair. K&N only takes issue with those dealerships who advise consumers that the mere installation of a K&N air filter on a vehicle “voids” the factory warranty, or they convey to the manufacturer an unsubstantiated opinion or conclusion that a K&N air filter caused an engine or component failure, without any objective proof to support such a statement, which results in the denial of a legitimate warranty repair.
Sincerely,
STEVE ROGERS,
President & CEO
K&N Engineering, Inc.
#5
12-17-2007 | 04:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From:
COLLAPSED AIR FILTERS..CHRYSLER'S WARRANTY IS A JOKE!!
I bought a 2006 Dodge 3500 cummins at Southtown Chrysler in Edmonton and purchased their service program which required me to bring the vechicle in for regular maintenance. As it goes i had just got it serviced and was operating it north of the city on a combination of gravel and paved roads. I took in back ~ 3 months later for its next service and the stock air filter had been sucked out its holding compartment right up to the turbo. As a result dirt got into the engine and scored the cylinder walls requiring me to replace the engine. They told me that this would not be covered by warranty ant that I would need to replace the engine on my own tab. Their reason was that it was my responsibility to constantly check the air filter and that I must have abused the truck. I ended up hiring a lawyer and now the issues is going to court in March. I ended up replacing the engine myself and am now suing for damages. The truck had only 40,000kms on it. After reviewing my records the air filters were never changed at my regular services. Apparently from what I hear talking to other guys in similar situations is that when driving on garvel road some guys are changing the air filters ONCE A WEEK!! This sounds crazy to me. However they say its my fault. Doesn't this sound like a design flaw on behalf of Dodge? Apparently I'm not the first guy that this has happened to. However Chrysler is adamant that they will not give me replacement cost for the engine? Any thoughts from anyone? Has this happened to anybody else?
#6
12-17-2007 | 09:51 AM
Record Breaker
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,497
Likes: 0
From: North Plains, Oregon
RE: COLLAPSED AIR FILTERS..CHRYSLER'S WARRANTY IS A JOKE!!
If you add a programmer/box to your truck and then rely on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act to save your warranty you will lose not Dodge/Chrysler. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act was set up for replacement parts like air, fuel, oil filters, brakes, ball joints etc not something like a programmer/box that can cause damage to your engine. Also to the best of my knowledge all of these add-on power box/programmers leave some trace of them selves or the engine running outside of normal operating parameters in your trucks computer and can be found if looked for by either Dodge or Cummins. So if you put one on and something breaks don’t ask Dodge to pay to fix it for you, pay for it your self.
