Because of high fuel prices, and because my "3" 1980 gas 3500 Crew Cab dualie GMC's only get 7-8 MPG towing 7,000 lb trailers, I'm about to take the plunge and start replacing them with Dodge 3500 CD Quad Cabs, probably with a Manual Trans.. I will be using this first truck daily, pulling a 7,000 lb. Chem. Treatment trailer in the Oil Fields. I am looking for RELIABILITY and low fuel and maint. costs. I will also use the truck to pull a Dirt Stock Car 360 mile RT every other Saturday and occ. pull a 26' Silver Streak travel trailer when I get a break. I have been following this forum for a while, and hope some of you can provide me with some suggestions. I want the 3500 Dually for safety while towing, and I want the Quad Cab for the additional room I need for my support equipment.

I don't want to put out $50,000 for a new truck,(the oil companies are making a fortune, but won't let small service companies make anything). I am currently looking at two options.

Option one is a 1997 or early 1998 12 valve CD with a 5 speed, Option two is a 2002-2004 24 valve CD with a 6 speed manual. I am avoiding the 1998.5-2001 models, because of the Series 53 block problem.(I know several people who had problems with the series 53 blocks on their Dodge CD trucks and went to Ford 7.3's because of it.)

Are there any serious problems or shortcomings with the 1997-Early 1998 12 Valve CD engines?. I am worried that with 150,000-200,000 miles on them, the maintaince and down time may be a big problem. The CD may last 500,000 miles, but the Turbocharger and other systems and parts may take a lot of replacement and repair.

Option two would be to get a 2003 or 2004, with low mileage, but I have had reports from my crew chef, who is shop manager for one of the big farms in this area, that the newer 24 valve CD models have more maintaince down time than the older 12 valve version.

I really appreciate any comments or suggestions that any of you could provide. There seem to be quite a number of VERY Knowledgable people posting on this board, and as I have never owned a Diesel Pickup before, I could sure use some suggestions. If this first Dodge works out OK, I'll replace the other two trucks with the exact same thing. I like the Idea of having all three Trucks the same make and model, it simplifies spares, filters, etc.

Thank,

Ralph

 

Seems like you are after exactly what I have, as far as the 12V goes. I did have some trouble actually finding a 3500 12V QC 4x4 with the 5 speed, but I found the most on ebay. I had to fly from VA to TX to pick it up, but like I said, they were hard to find. I've been using mine to haul a 20ft car hauler with a windsail of a Jeep Wrangler rock-crawler. I have had no problems except for the tranny losing fifth gear when the nut holding the gear in place came off (a problem with the NV4500 trans) but a simple fix later and back to hauling w/out concern or trouble through the mountains. Engine has 145K miles on now, but no forseeable problems as of yet. (knock on wood) BTW, I got mine last year for $14K with 125K miles.

 

Thanks for the input. I do like the Early 98 Quad Cab as it has 4 doors. I'm thinking that with a good 97-98 costing me 12-14K I could put 5K in it over the next 2 years and still be way ahead cost wise. I am going to research the 2003 and 2004 a bit more, but the entry price would be 20-25K and then I would still need a 5K reserve to make sure I keep it running OK. When you look at getting 3 trucks, the $ difference is substantial. What is the FIX for the 5th gear problem? I will probably need to research that so I won't damage the transmission.

 

the problem with the NV4500 droping 5th was the nut holding it on would actualy spin off and allow the gear to come off the spline. a simple tack weld is normaly all that is needed to keep it on permanentaly.

I have an 04.5, the first runs of the '600' engine. you can tell by looking at the valve cover, it will tell you the HP. I personaly have not had any problems to speak of with 28K on the clock. I believe you are looking in the right direction though. a 93-98 12 valve will last a long time, and 150K on the ticker is nothing. a guy I do some work for on occasion has a 97 12 valve with 350K and the only problem he has had so far was the radiator split at the ends since the caps are plastic. he pulls a 45 foot 5vr and what ever else with his.

realy, you cannot go wrong with buying what you are looking for, an older 12 valve for 12-14K and then tossing 5K at it to get it running if you were to have a problem.

 

Drew,
Thanks for the info. I will probably go the 97 or 98 12 Valve/stick shift route. I will look around for a 98 because of the 4 doors on the quad cab model. If I can get 15 MPG towing, I will save $750 a month in fuel costs, so a 97-98 Dodge could pay for it's self in less than three years. That works for me! I don't plan on any extensive modifications for more HP. I may put a chip in it and run it on the lowest setting to get the additional mileage that I see described on this forum. Any other simple mods that will improve mileage?
Ralph

 

if you go for the 97 or 98 the injector pump is fully mechanical. you can do some tweaking with the fuel plate and internal star wheel and make some good power while keeping the fuel mileage.

it wasnt untill 98.5 when the electronics hit the engine.

 

Just one other thing to consider, there will be other non-engine-related mtc. costs with the older trucks. I sold my 97 2500 CTD to buy my '06. Here are some of the things I replaced on it before I sold it with 160k miles:

Front Rotors
Front Axle Kingpins
Front Trackbar
A/C Condenser
Starter Solenoid
Gears - both ends (pinion seals were leaking, but i actually swapped in 4.10 gears while I had it opened up)
Stereo and Rear Speakers

Not a deterrent, but the increased frequency of required maintenance on mine was part of what convinced me it was time to upgrade. The CTD may last forever, but the rest of the truck falls apart like any other. That being said, I think you could get a lot of good use out of a 12v.

BTW - I paid < 40k for my '06 QC 3500.

 

Thanks for the info on replacements you did on your 97. I will probably stay away from 4WD because of the potential for higher maintaince costs. That said, I can replace all three of my 80 GMC Crew Cab Duallies for anbout $40,000 Cash. If I go for new trucks, I will need to finance at least $50K, and I don't trust the Major oil companies I am working with, they have a habit of changing their mind on projects such as mine, after the service company has bought new equipment and added personnel. I don't want to wind up going bankrupt if the the Big Oil Co's change their mind 6 months to a year into the new program they are starting.

I have a good Service Mechanic available near my shop that has lots of exp. with Dodge 3500 series trucks, though he does not do much on the CTD engines, except change Oil Filters, Air Filters and Fuel Filters. I am hoping that some of the things you listed have already been changed out at least once by the time I get them.

I am now actively looking for an early 1998 Quad Cab 12 Valve CDT with a 5 Speed. I know those will be hard to find, so the two I follow on with, will probably be 1997 Club Cab's. I like the early 1998 Quad Cab because of the 4 doors, even though the front door must be opened first to open the rear door. I plan on saving one of the 80 Crew Cab Duallies for a backup truck when any of the Dodges are down. I am currently using a 3/4 Ton Ford Camper Special, with a 460, for that purpose now, and it is really worn out, so it is going to go as soon as I pick up my first Dodge 3500.

I am looking through all the local sources, NOTHING., also Auto Trader and Ebay. Auto Trader seems to be the best source so far. I wonder if there are any others out there that are as good as AutoTrader.com?

I really appreciate the input I have received on this forum. THANKS.

Ralph

 

if one of these trucks hits the market they dont stay long, if you find one you will need to act on it QUICK

also, doing the oil changes, air filter, and fuel filter changes are easy and take about 30 min to do all three. the fuel filter is the easiest to change of any truck or car I have ever owned or worked on

 

If your still going to ge a 98 cummins, the first thing you sould do is swicht the steering to an 05 steer system with a frame mount steady bearing on the steering box, there is a kit you can buy for about 800 american, it will save you aslot of headache and an expensive steering box, also be weary of play in the front end, either get it checked my an experienced mechanic or get right down and check all the components for slop. good luck with your truck search