BEFORE get my gun out and really kill it!!
Van & CUV Section Moderator
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,372
Likes: 115
RE: BEFORE get my gun out and really kill it!!
Forget the spark tester, it will still show spark even when it's weak. Forget the dvm for now and remove the center wire from the distributor. Place the metal contact about 1/2" from the block then turn the key to start and observe the spark. It should be bright blue. If it's orange, it's a weak spark.
If it was a good spark, reconnect the wire to the distributor. Now take a wire off of a plug (any one) and do the same with it that you just did with the center wire, the result should be the same. Is it?
If it was a good spark, reconnect the wire to the distributor. Now take a wire off of a plug (any one) and do the same with it that you just did with the center wire, the result should be the same. Is it?
Thread Starter
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
From: backwoods Ohio
RE: BEFORE get my gun out and really kill it!!
NO spark from plugs,yes spark from coil ,even put in new distributor.TDC, rotor pointing to 1 cylinder.
Where is scooby doo and mystery van when you need them....
Where is scooby doo and mystery van when you need them....
Thread Starter
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
From: backwoods Ohio
RE: BEFORE get my gun out and really kill it!!
ORIGINAL: alloro
Maybe your new wires are no good.
Maybe your new wires are no good.
I'm going to try one more thing 4/20 then I'm towing it to a real mechanic .
Professional
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
From:
RE: BEFORE get my gun out and really kill it!!
Can you check something for me? You are checking for spark from the wire to the distributor. Instead pull the wire from the plug, and see if a spark is jumping to any ground. A spark will not jump to the wire on the distributor cap for 2 reasons.., there is no ground on the end of the wire, or ths spark is grounding someplace else in the distributor. Just because the rotor is pointing at cyl 1, did you check the resistance (ohms) of the pickup coil that is in the base of the distributor? with your VOM, This will either be 2 or 4 wires depending if yours has the dual pickup coil. Each coil should have its own pair of wires. Also I know you said that you intalled a new rotor. Is the spring at the top making contact with bearing on the inside of the cap? Is there any residue on the rotor tip?
Also when you did the spark check at the center of the dist cap what color was the spark -- you didn't say above.
One last thing, when you say that the rotor tip is pointing at TDC, I assume you mean for Cylinder 1. Every cylindar has a TDC, and it can occur on the compression stroke or the exaust stroke. If you imagine the distributor is a clock, and the front of the engine is 12 oclock and the rear is 6. what time is the tip of the rotor pointing at?
In general the plug you pull shouldn't matter because the starter motor should turn the engine one full rotation fairly quickly and that will cause which ever wire you have pulled to be live.
How have you been recharging the battery during your testing?
Also when you did the spark check at the center of the dist cap what color was the spark -- you didn't say above.
One last thing, when you say that the rotor tip is pointing at TDC, I assume you mean for Cylinder 1. Every cylindar has a TDC, and it can occur on the compression stroke or the exaust stroke. If you imagine the distributor is a clock, and the front of the engine is 12 oclock and the rear is 6. what time is the tip of the rotor pointing at?
In general the plug you pull shouldn't matter because the starter motor should turn the engine one full rotation fairly quickly and that will cause which ever wire you have pulled to be live.
How have you been recharging the battery during your testing?
Thread Starter
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
From: backwoods Ohio
RE: BEFORE get my gun out and really kill it!!
ORIGINAL: IGadget
Can you check something for me? You are checking for spark from the wire to the distributor. Instead pull the wire from the plug, and see if a spark is jumping to any ground. A spark will not jump to the wire on the distributor cap for 2 reasons.., there is no ground on the end of the wire, or ths spark is grounding someplace else in the distributor. Just because the rotor is pointing at cyl 1, did you check the resistance (ohms) of the pickup coil that is in the base of the distributor? with your VOM, This will either be 2 or 4 wires depending if yours has the dual pickup coil. Each coil should have its own pair of wires. Also I know you said that you intalled a new rotor. Is the spring at the top making contact with bearing on the inside of the cap? Is there any residue on the rotor tip?
Also when you did the spark check at the center of the dist cap what color was the spark -- you didn't say above.
One last thing, when you say that the rotor tip is pointing at TDC, I assume you mean for Cylinder 1. Every cylindar has a TDC, and it can occur on the compression stroke or the exaust stroke. If you imagine the distributor is a clock, and the front of the engine is 12 oclock and the rear is 6. what time is the tip of the rotor pointing at?
In general the plug you pull shouldn't matter because the starter motor should turn the engine one full rotation fairly quickly and that will cause which ever wire you have pulled to be live.
How have you been recharging the battery during your testing?
Can you check something for me? You are checking for spark from the wire to the distributor. Instead pull the wire from the plug, and see if a spark is jumping to any ground. A spark will not jump to the wire on the distributor cap for 2 reasons.., there is no ground on the end of the wire, or ths spark is grounding someplace else in the distributor. Just because the rotor is pointing at cyl 1, did you check the resistance (ohms) of the pickup coil that is in the base of the distributor? with your VOM, This will either be 2 or 4 wires depending if yours has the dual pickup coil. Each coil should have its own pair of wires. Also I know you said that you intalled a new rotor. Is the spring at the top making contact with bearing on the inside of the cap? Is there any residue on the rotor tip?
Also when you did the spark check at the center of the dist cap what color was the spark -- you didn't say above.
One last thing, when you say that the rotor tip is pointing at TDC, I assume you mean for Cylinder 1. Every cylindar has a TDC, and it can occur on the compression stroke or the exaust stroke. If you imagine the distributor is a clock, and the front of the engine is 12 oclock and the rear is 6. what time is the tip of the rotor pointing at?
In general the plug you pull shouldn't matter because the starter motor should turn the engine one full rotation fairly quickly and that will cause which ever wire you have pulled to be live.
How have you been recharging the battery during your testing?
As far as it goes on WHAT TIME it is basically at like 2 oclock position which is like it was when it was running. The dist. is at the right place b/c the hold down bracket has a little nub that meets up with a depression on the dist. to "lock ot in place as it were.
No pick up coil in the dist it has a camshaft sen.(I have 3 of them now)1 old, 1 new and 1 from the new dist it came with.Yes the ohms are right by the book.
Yes i have been recharging my battery but not when i test.
I will check again but i can find any wires grounding out
Professional
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
From:
RE: BEFORE get my gun out and really kill it!!
Hmm, that spark has to be shorting someplace, for the life of me I cant figure out where. The cap should be clean inside, contacts should be clean as well. Since all of that is new. The tab on the top of the rotor seems to be making contact with the center pin on the cap properly because you are getting spark there.
Electricity wont flow no matter how high the potential is unless it can bridge to ground some how. That is why downed wires are so dangerous. They may not be sparking when you think they are off. This is why I suggested checking to see if a spark would reach the other end of the wires rather than from the cap. Though try another good ground other than the plugs. so that all you are testing is just the wire.
I'd take off the rotor cap and make sure there is no damage insuide there that could be grounding into the rotor shaft. in working though this in my head, when you pulled the center cable to check spark, leave the engine cranking for a few revs. See if you are getting 8 sparks, rather than just checking for one spark and stopping.
The plugs would still fire even if the timing were off its just you wouldnt get useful work out of the spark. Its hard to think about everything you would be testing when you arent doing the testing.
good luck
Electricity wont flow no matter how high the potential is unless it can bridge to ground some how. That is why downed wires are so dangerous. They may not be sparking when you think they are off. This is why I suggested checking to see if a spark would reach the other end of the wires rather than from the cap. Though try another good ground other than the plugs. so that all you are testing is just the wire.
I'd take off the rotor cap and make sure there is no damage insuide there that could be grounding into the rotor shaft. in working though this in my head, when you pulled the center cable to check spark, leave the engine cranking for a few revs. See if you are getting 8 sparks, rather than just checking for one spark and stopping.
The plugs would still fire even if the timing were off its just you wouldnt get useful work out of the spark. Its hard to think about everything you would be testing when you arent doing the testing.
good luck
Van & CUV Section Moderator
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,372
Likes: 115
RE: BEFORE get my gun out and really kill it!!
Rethinking this problem over (and over) I keep coming back to the only conclusion as being a weak spark. The spark is just strong enough to make the initial jump off of the coil wire, but when it has to also jump the additional gap of rotor to cap and then cap to plug (or tester), there just isn't enough voltage to do it.
Thread Starter
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
From: backwoods Ohio
RE: BEFORE get my gun out and really kill it!!
I am trying one last thing b/4 I cancel the monday tow. There is another forum where a guy said in his thread and in some pm's that he was having the same problem with his 2001, he did everything I had done and really sounds like we have the same problem with no fire plugs.
get this it was his...... ignition switch.....It's only another 35$ so i'm going to try it in the morning.
get this it was his...... ignition switch.....It's only another 35$ so i'm going to try it in the morning.