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A/C Questions

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Old 06-21-2010, 09:53 PM
Engtech05
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Default A/C Questions

Good Day to all. I am new to this forum but not new to forums.

Question: My 1994 B250 Mark III Conversion van has a rear blower but no controls for heat or A/C. The A/C system needs a tune up, badly. My question is this, I cannot find the so called rear A/C Filter so I can change it out with the rest of the A/C components. Will someone let me know where it is or if there is one. Any help is appreciated. The A/C started blowing warm air on the way back from OK last week, UGH!!! Hot air and windows down.
Thanks again for the help.
 
  #2  
Old 06-20-2013, 06:17 PM
cmk59
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Default Looking for some AC help myself...

Hey, y'all!

Living in OK with a heart condition almost makes a working A/C system mandatory, y'know? I have a '92 Dodge D250 Mark lll conversion van that needs an A/C recharge, but I can't find a dealer or mech that has/uses R12 and I'm loath to do a conversion (too broke, anyway!). AND to top that off, my van has front & rear A/C units, and the only thing I know that refers to the rear unit is a 3-position paddle switch installed in the lower part of the factory A/C dash panel.

Questions are:
1. What are the three positions on the paddle switch (On/off/both? Both/front rear? I don't know...) .

2. Are there any (albeit not cheap, I know) aftermarket 'charges' for the A/C system that I could still do myself? How would I then charge this dual system?

3. Third, where/how do I find an owner's manual for this wee beastie (including the A/C system)?

4. I've had the engine cooling system completely overhauled (block flush, new rad, new pump/hoses, etc), and the engine temp even on a 100-degree day is only at the 1/3 mark, if that. I'd like to know what I might be able to do (besides a K&N air filter and tune up - I want to use the E-3 spark plugs, too) to boost the efficiency/mileage of the motor w/o sacrificing what mileage I do have (I'm getting 11-14 combined, with 135K on the clock and a freshly-rebuilt 4-speed tranny as well as the cooling system overhaul). Will adding trans and engine oil cooler units do anything in view of the currently-stellar cooling performance of the motor? I'm inclined to put them on anyway, just because I used to drive a van in OTR sales, and it was cheap insurance for the trucks.

Anyway, I hope someone can help with these (admittedly simple) questions, and thanks! I can't work on my vehicle as much as I want to (health again), but I want to do what I can...

Chuck
Norman, OK
[email protected]
 
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:19 PM
blackvan
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Last edited by blackvan; 07-09-2016 at 09:13 AM. Reason: removed by me
  #4  
Old 06-20-2013, 07:37 PM
cmk59
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Default Good to know...

Originally Posted by blackvan View Post
I would not recommend converting it to R134a as R12 is a vastly superior refrigerant and it'll never be as good as it should be. You can still buy cans of R12 and charge the system yourself if you get an EPA MVAC license which is pretty easy to do online.

There is no real difference in charging the dual system over a conventional system other than it just holds more refrigerant. R12 refrigerant (and owners manual, and service manuals) can all be found on Ebay.

On my 2000 Ram conversion van, the rear A/C control **** simply controls rear blower motor speeds ( off/low/high ).
------------------ Thanks for the info, it helps! Also nice to hear from another vet (I'm a DV...14ys USAF)...thanks for your service! I never wanted to convert, but it's just hard to find the R12 around here, for some reason. I'll look in to the online options you suggested, for sure!!! I'm also toying with converting the beastie to CNG, if I can find a reputable vendor! THAT should be nice around here!

Thanks again!
Chuck
Norman, OK
 
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:31 PM
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  #6  
Old 06-21-2013, 03:39 PM
cmk59
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Talking

Originally Posted by blackvan View Post
No problem, happy to help. Not a vet tho, Veteran on here just means " some guy who likes to run his mouth alot"

A/C techs working at low level establishments often pretend that R12 is like gold or will tell you its illegal or some similar nonsense. Although R12 is not sold at auto parts stores anymore, it is still perfectly legal and you can find it online but you will need a license.

Given the 20% power loss I don't think you could talk me into CNG even if natural gas was free, but hey thats me.

GTK about the A/C tech thing...though I had long suspected same. As to 'Vet', well, thanks for your service HERE, anyway!

On the power loss thing...given the newer computer technologies that are being used, the studies I've read so far (both consumer and provider-side) seem to fairly uniformly indicate that not only is the power loss due to 'thermal inefficiency' reduced with newer computer programs, but it's down to less than 5%, give or take.

For me, with the savings on fuel and maintenance costs, it's still a no-brainer (no harm intended). One just goes with either a 'hybrid' system (which again, we didn't use to have...it was originally 'one or the other' only), or you simply go with enough tank capacity to equal what your gas tank used to give you, mileage-wise. With a dual-remote-oil-filter setup and good-quality (even semi-syn for an older motor, or full syn for a new one), you could easily think about going 300K or more with a gas engine; that used to be fantasy-ish territory, even in the diesel world. At the (local, in central Oklahoma) current price for CNG ( $0.99 right now, it bounces from there to $1.03 and back), it can save me and my 11mpg van some $5500 plus a year just in fuel costs...not counting extending mean time between tune-ups - (as REALLY good plugs like E-3 or Platinums) would go very much farther without the fouling problems or needing gas additives to stay clean, etc - or being able to rely on a 5-7,000-mile oil change now being the norm, rather than under 3K.

A good friend of mine once said, 'don't matter what kind of oil you use, it all gets dirty at the same rate in your motor'. True, but that's where using a remote-dual-filter system gives you that extension. You can use the oil to the proper limits of its lubricity and change it just before it both gets dirty and loses its lubricating abilities.

Sorry to go off on that tangent...I'm just really sold on the idea, even if I can't afford to convert either of my vehicles! (My '68 Impala needs a new motor and gas tank, so converting to CNG at that time seems like a good idea!). I keep having this dream where I'm driving my Impala on CNG and people notice it somehow - I tell them one of those 'pimp yer ride' sorta shows did it...I dunno! Hey, I have GOOD dreams! Hell, if the gas company converted my car(s) to CNG in return for advertising on them (vehicle wrap), I'd be TOOO cool with that (pun intended!)

Thanks again, my friend...and seriously, look into CNG conversion nowadays...with the incentives from Uncle Sugar, why not?

Chuck
 
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:29 PM
oleman
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Conversion to gaseous fuel is iffy at best.
Low MPG, low power, and safety issues come to mind.
Fuel availability is a serious issue unless you never get more than 100 miles from a filling station.
Works great for a city bus that makes constant circles around a filling station.
Try driving from Shreveport to El Paso on CNG or the more available propane.
E3 sparkplugs, cold air intakes, high flow filters and other assorted gadgets are just gimmicks.
JC Whitney was the source for all the fuel economy items in the 50's.
Bet they still are, or are they now gone?
 
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:40 PM
cmk59
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Lightbulb "Iffy" at best?

Originally Posted by oleman View Post
Conversion to gaseous fuel is iffy at best.
Low MPG, low power, and safety issues come to mind.
Fuel availability is a serious issue unless you never get more than 100 miles from a filling station.
Works great for a city bus that makes constant circles around a filling station.
Try driving from Shreveport to El Paso on CNG or the more available propane.
E3 sparkplugs, cold air intakes, high flow filters and other assorted gadgets are just gimmicks.
JC Whitney was the source for all the fuel economy items in the 50's.
Bet they still are, or are they now gone?
Not quite getting what you mean by 'iffy', less it's about the people set up do do conversions. I've driven more than a few LPG/CNG powered vehicles, and quite frankly loved them. I've also done a ton of research, which has me pretty well convinced that a hybrid system (where the CNG system is 'piggybacked' onto the regular gas system...not a problem in big vans) in particular will not only eliminate the refuelling problem, but allow me to save even more money by being able to buy the cheapest fuel where I can find it when I need it.

As to the E3 plugs...a good spark plug is no gimmick, and the E3's have seen some rigorous testing by people who don't have anything to gain from them. I've seen real-world uses (friends) who love the *subjective, I grant you* feeling of quickness, throttle sensitivity and without a doubt greater gas mileage under their typical driving scenarios.

Cold-air systems? If they didn't work, they wouldn't be standard on every car made. It's pure physics; any air that is cooler than that surrounding a hot motor is therefore denser and has both more ability to deliver power in a combustion stroke, and a minimal ability to cool the engine as it rushes through the intake system.

High-flow filters? Seriously? I don't want to be rude, but I'm no Luddite, nor am I some screwball that buys everything he sees because it's "NEW" and "IMPROVED", etc. The cotton-foam air filters (like K&N and certain other companies now use - both wetted and dry types) still perform as well or better than paper filters. Again, physics and math both show us that not only do the high-flow filters (in general, and not the pure open-cell foam types) actually flow better and filter better when they are not only properly oiled but somewhat already dirty through normal use.

Now, there are some things I grant you that ARE B.S., and again science proves they're B.S. Things like the "Tornado" , any 'vortex-generating' device, magnetic devices of any kind, water-injection (unless you have a fuel-injected/diesel/NOx vehicle where it would keep down combustion temps)... all THAT is pure crap. NOoooooo argument. You can't realign molecules, swirling the air before it goes into the manifold is pointless (mainly 'cause the manifold and the runners will do the swirling for you), and the atomization a swirl-inducing device is supposed to give you (or mixing, whatever you want to call it) would be better served by a device that better atomizes liquid fuel before it gets to a carburetor venturi.

In absence of that, Fuel Injection takes that 'handicap' and makes it a non-handicap (in modern systems) by injecting it into the individual intake runners or into the cylinder(s) itself, where pressure induces atomization immediately. Pure physics in intake design swirls fuel, though one can take a Dremel tool and polish out their manifold and get something of a noticeable improvement in performance and mileage...so long as they also match the manifolds on both sides to the gasket in between them. BUT that's another issue.

CNG avoids all that (and fuel lockup issues) because it's already in gaseous form once it leaves the compressed tank. True, it is somewhat less efficient (depending on who does the measuring and how), but that is well offset by it's plentiful-ness (especially in North America), clean-burning nature (which, besides being good for the planet, demonstrably extends engine and oil life by up to 300% in some cases - and about 75-100% on average) and it's H U G E price discount. I'll be happy to carry 10-20% more gas on board (if it's a CNG-only vehicle) to approximate the mileage I used to get with gasoline. Given that CNG costs about 1/4 of what the same given volume of gasoline costs, why would you NOT convert if you could? AND, if you have a HYBRID CNG/Gas vehicle, you can easily DOUBLE your RANGE with less of a weight penalty than carrying a full second tank of gasoline! (And my '92 Dodge B250 had a factory CNG option, so theoretically I can have a hybrid system if I had the money to have it put in!)

How is any of that 'gimmick'? Again, I don't mean to be rude, but it's right there in front of us, and it's not Ron Popeil selling it. If I was given the money and ability, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Some things may cost up front (like the auxiliary transmission and engine-oil coolers I put on most vehicles I own), but they pay HUGE dividends in the life of my machinery and lower costs of operation.

And J.C. Whitney? Yeah, there's a bunch of crap in there...always has been. BUT it helped keep my ole '63 Bug alive when I had it. They do have good stuff for good prices, if you're smart in your shopping. I've used 'em on and off for decades, now, if I couldn't find something I needed relatively locally.

Speaking of which, more and more gas station and convenience-store chains are installing CNG outlets (esp. here in Oklahoma), and it's easy to find CNG/Propane filling sites on the Internet. (If nothing else, go to a local U-Haul or similar such facility - most all places have at least one in their town - and fill up there. Yup, the outlets that fill small CNG & propane tanks for grillers and others are more than happy to fill you up. It's the same filling system as a CNG 'gas station' outlet uses.) If you know of a city that uses CNG, you can find a filling site somewhere there. Heck, we even have one at both out local regional airport and at Will Rogers World Airport! Check the 'rental car' areas around all major/minor airports, and I bet you'll find one, with many/most unattended and 24-hour operations!

I'm not telling anyone they have to ... or feel that they should do any of this, for that matter. What I'm saying is is that for the things they offer, things like good plugs, high-flow air cleaners, dual-exhaust systems (and headers, too) and CNG are good for us, our wallets, our economy, and getting off the oil barrels that the Middle - Eastern pukes keep us bent over. It's just pure self-preservation and sticking it to the greedy oil barons...ours and theirs!

You'd think I'm so high an advocate because I'm a CNG user ... again, I can't afford a $5K conversion cost for my van yet, by a looong shot. I still also have a '68 Impala that needs a new motor and gas tank...and when ITs time comes, it WILL have CNG power and a smaller gas tank for a hybrid system, 'cause I'll do it from the start. The benefits are plain, just from my education. I hope they're plain-er for everyone now. (And if anyone wants to help this ole DAV in his quest, write me at [email protected]!)
 

Last edited by cmk59; 06-26-2013 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Forgot text.

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